Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > Firearms and Other Weapons Forum > Military Weapons Forum
Articles Chat Room Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files



Military Weapons Forum AR15, AK47, SKS, H&K, Galil, CETME, FN/FAL, Tanks, Ships, Jets, Helicopters....

Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-23-2008, 02:58 PM
Survival Helper's Avatar
Survival Helper Survival Helper is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,509
Thanks: 2,428
Thanked 2,090 Times in 963 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Helpful Post Outstanding Gear Review 
Total Awards: 2
Default



Advertise Here

Honestly it is the classification of the rifle that ultimately tells a person what it is used for. Main BATTLE Rifle, Main HUNTING Rifle, Main TARGET Rifle. What it has to do with is the quality of the rifle being used, and its intended purpose. Its not about I can use my hunting rifle because it shoots .308 it is in fact about this weapon being tested and fielded in a battlefield environment. I am sorry I have played in the sandbox and the Saiga is not a battle rifle, I understand it is reliable, fairly well designed, and cheap. The simple matter is it was not designed to be battlefield reliable. Just have a look at all the complaints from people in the civilian sector about these rifle, then tell me it is battle ready. I am sorry that you people feel it is, but it is not anymore battle ready than a mini-30. You bought a .308 plinker and want to convert it into a battle rifle in which it was never designed to be. Would I choose a VEPR? NO I said if I was stuck on an AK in .308 I would, not that I would actually own one. Sorry I believe in QUALITY over QUANTITY any day that my safety is required. If you feel that your life is worth a $250 rifle that is fine, I believe that mine and my families life is worth defending with the best quality firearms I can get, even if it means that I have less firearms. I love my WASR-10 but its not what I would choose to defend my family because it is not an AK-47. It looks the same, functions the same, parts interchange, it weighs the same, and aside from the receiver not being milled, it is the same, but when it comes down to it the quality of the rifle is not the same, just like the quality of most AR-15 variants is not the same as an M-16. Its real easy to sit here and say how battle ready a rifle is, but yet it is so cheap and no other country uses them for anything? Wonder why? The Spetznaz use the Saiga 12 because they only have one other choice of shotgun, and it is a hunting gun, ever wonder why Saiga rifles aren't used by Russia? Seriously use the rifle as intended, otherwise you just open the door for people that are much better trained and equipped to take it from you later.
__________________
HELP KEEP THIS FORUM GOING http://www.survivalistboards.com/payments.php
The Following User Says Thank You to Survival Helper For This Useful Post:
Old 02-23-2008, 05:12 PM
fragout's Avatar
fragout fragout is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,166
Thanks: 2,589
Thanked 2,501 Times in 1,438 Posts
Default

WOW..... This post really took off since I was here last. There is alot of good info here regarding this platform from the people who own um however, and just wanna say thanks to all for sharing it with guys like me who are interested, but have never laid hands on one to date.
In my paticular case, I was looking at it as a back up rifle/cache rifle for our group. It just might fit the bill for our paticular needs. We are also lookin at the Indian Ishapore 308 rifle as well. ( Our primary MBR caliber is 308 using the M14/M1A platform).
Another platform that we are fond of is the AK/SKS series in 7.62x39mm. (Low tech, simple, cost effective, and reliable for the most part.) It seems as if the Saiga 308 shares a few parts here and there with it, from what I've gathered so far, and might be a bonus for this reason as well.

No need for insults, and name callin everyone. The best things about forums like this IS differenence in opinions, and allows all of us to use it as we see fit.
I actually look fwd to a good debate thats produced in a respectfull manner, and have been involved in a few myself, right here in the past. The fact that I may, or may not be able to **** farther than the other guy dont really matter...............


Thanks again...Fragout


11B

Last edited by fragout; 02-23-2008 at 05:51 PM..
Old 02-23-2008, 05:42 PM
Survival Helper's Avatar
Survival Helper Survival Helper is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,509
Thanks: 2,428
Thanked 2,090 Times in 963 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Helpful Post Outstanding Gear Review 
Total Awards: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fragout View Post
WOW..... This post really took off since I was here last. There is alot of good info here regarding this platform from the people who own um however, and just wanna say thanks to all for sharing it with guys like me who are interested, but have never laid hands on one to date.
In my paticular case, I was looking at it as a back up rifle/cache rifle for our group. It just might fit the bill for our paticular needs.


Thanks again...Fragout


11B
Backup/cache rifle? I could use a few of those, good point. May not fit into "main" but sure does fit into "oops I need another for....." Now I may just have to pick up a case of them, most likely in x39 so as to keep with current ammo on hand. Good idea
__________________
HELP KEEP THIS FORUM GOING http://www.survivalistboards.com/payments.php
Old 02-23-2008, 05:53 PM
fragout's Avatar
fragout fragout is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,166
Thanks: 2,589
Thanked 2,501 Times in 1,438 Posts
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Survival Helper View Post
Backup/cache rifle? I could use a few of those, good point. May not fit into "main" but sure does fit into "oops I need another for....." Now I may just have to pick up a case of them, most likely in x39 so as to keep with current ammo on hand. Good idea
That is my main point of interest for this paticular platform at present time.
Old 02-23-2008, 08:41 PM
Cryptkeeper's Avatar
Cryptkeeper Cryptkeeper is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,078
Thanks: 4,723
Thanked 5,374 Times in 2,715 Posts
Default

alot of ppl was complaining about the early saigas shipped by EAA when they 1st came out and if you look at some of the 1st year they where made sloppy, but they locked their heels and started makeing them right .mine where from EAA just before they stoped importeing them and those are just fine and all the ones from RAA are just fine, well made.that why they came out with saiga 308 vepr to save us from haveing to convert them. if they are complaining about the ones made now most are expecting them to hit a dime at 500yrd which is what they are expecting but the weapon isnt designed to do. i do agree with SH if your going to put 1k+ (not counting scope & mags) into a saiga i think it would be better to just buy a better weapon of quality.but at the same time just because it cost more doesnt mean it better. but the saiga is just fine for me and would fit the bill for my needs.

just food for thought just because an army uses a certain weapon doesnt really mean its the best MBR it just means the maker cut a better deal with that country to sell it to them (its all about the money) most countries includeing the U.S. try to go as cheap as they can. the infantryman is expendable. just because it is on the civilian market doesnt mean it is less quality, it just means the makers didnt cut as good of a deal (or bribe whom buys them for their country). there are alot of fine weapons on the civilian market that is just fine to be used as a MBR

Last edited by Cryptkeeper; 02-23-2008 at 08:55 PM..
Old 02-23-2008, 08:54 PM
Beaterar's Avatar
Beaterar Beaterar is offline
Son Of Liberty
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kentucky 15th-103rd
Age: 35
Posts: 1,870
Thanks: 388
Thanked 1,548 Times in 652 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Helpful Post Outstanding Informative Post 
Total Awards: 2
Default

I think the Saiga is a fine battle rifle and have no worries about useing it, I dont think its a suitable replacment for a FAL, AR10, M14 and if im going to pay the high cost of 308 I want to be able to maximize its effectiveness, I just dont feel the saiga dose this. As far as its battle worthyness Its a quality AK type rifle and I have no problem with it.
The Following User Says Thank You to Beaterar For This Useful Post:
Old 02-24-2008, 01:16 AM
bonehedz bonehedz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere in MT
Posts: 56
Thanks: 38
Thanked 27 Times in 16 Posts
Default ...and you thought you got a good deal!!!

A side note, RE: best money can buy: the last AKM (Soviet-era production) I had to, a-hmm, acquire in a far-off place cost me about $14 dollars US...no BS. I should be noted, however, the in this part of the world (southwestAsia), $14 is about two weeks gross pay, based on mean income...That's about the equivalent of $750-800 stateside... That's the price of progress, I guess. I only wish I had figured a way to UPS those babies home!!!
Old 02-24-2008, 01:24 AM
dayliterun's Avatar
dayliterun dayliterun is offline
Deo VIndice
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Southeast Georgia
Posts: 6,077
Thanks: 2,210
Thanked 4,074 Times in 2,358 Posts
Default

I bought a 410 version many years ago when they first came out...long before the 308 was offered. back then to get hi-caps, I had to send to europe for a couple 10 rounders. I love the versatility of the ak action. If the 308 is anything like the 410 in reliability and fairly accurate, I'd like to have one myself to add to my 308 set.
Old 02-24-2008, 11:57 AM
bonehedz bonehedz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere in MT
Posts: 56
Thanks: 38
Thanked 27 Times in 16 Posts
Default

Dayliterun- It is....Avtomats ARE a junky, crude plumbing/toaster (OK,turd!) kind of way...but for the sacrifice in fine machining, and a minute to-nonexistant sacrifice in accuracy, you get reliabilty of epic proportions, and a hardiness that would make an Arctic yaak envious...but you already know that, you have one of these puppies...
Old 02-24-2008, 05:15 PM
Dwind's Avatar
Dwind Dwind is offline
Information is Ammunition
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,125
Thanks: 27,618
Thanked 26,896 Times in 10,484 Posts
Awards Showcase
Top Poster Outstanding Firearms Post Top Poster Top Poster 
Total Awards: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dayliterun View Post
I bought a 410 version many years ago when they first came out...long before the 308 was offered. back then to get hi-caps, I had to send to europe for a couple 10 rounders. I love the versatility of the ak action. If the 308 is anything like the 410 in reliability and fairly accurate, I'd like to have one myself to add to my 308 set.
Strip and ship in seperate lots. Example. Buy 10 rifles, and send a box of 10 barrels, then a box of 10 trigger groups & gas tubes, ect.
__________________
"Forget all your ideas about civilized society, boys - here's a chance to raise merry hell." - Allen Dulles, OSS Director ...
Old 02-26-2008, 10:09 PM
Jester's Avatar
Jester Jester is offline
Phear mai SKS
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Phoenix, NY
Posts: 138
Thanks: 34
Thanked 92 Times in 29 Posts
Default

if you get a saiga id reccommend the 762x39. ammo is cheap and the gun is rather accurate out to 200 yards with iron sights. also, you can grab any ak mag and with a bit of filing it will fit into the saiga no problem(done it). also, instead of using a side mount, i reccomend the trirail dust cover replacement to put a scope on. my friend has a nice magnifying scope and a bipod on his and its really really nice to shoot. the AK platform is very reliable and the saigas break down just as easily and id almost bet parts could be interchangeable between other AK's.
Old 02-26-2008, 11:00 PM
bonehedz bonehedz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere in MT
Posts: 56
Thanks: 38
Thanked 27 Times in 16 Posts
Default

Parts are interchangable with the ak74S family, save the FCG and forward trunnion, but in my experience, receiver cover mounts have a tendency to loosen with usage, and therefore require more than periodic rezeroing (like every time you clean your weapon!) The major drawback with Warsaw Pact sidemounts (and all others, including the Finnish Rynnakkokivaari 92/95 series and the Israeli Galil), is they sit high (2.5" above center bore). Raise your cheekpiece and blaze away... BTW, this thread is discussing the .308 Saiga's merits as a main battle rifle, not comparing calibers. However, I wholeheartedly concur with your assesment of the7.62x39 round... We are armed TO THE TEETH here at the Duck Farm with 7.62 ComBloc weapons and ammo (it's 175 meters from the treeline to the fence, and open field all around!) The dead ducks won't be in the pen...In the name of all things reliable and simple, Bonehedz
Old 02-27-2008, 06:13 AM
Dwind's Avatar
Dwind Dwind is offline
Information is Ammunition
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,125
Thanks: 27,618
Thanked 26,896 Times in 10,484 Posts
Awards Showcase
Top Poster Outstanding Firearms Post Top Poster Top Poster 
Total Awards: 5
Default

Looks like the best way to get to Boneheadz is spelled J-D-A-M lol
__________________
"Forget all your ideas about civilized society, boys - here's a chance to raise merry hell." - Allen Dulles, OSS Director ...
The Following User Says Thank You to Dwind For This Useful Post:
Old 02-29-2008, 10:21 PM
bonehedz bonehedz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere in MT
Posts: 56
Thanks: 38
Thanked 27 Times in 16 Posts
Default

When the fecal matter is falling from that altitude, I'm glad I have stayed up on the martial arts training all these years...that forward flexibility will make it easier to kiss meine heine goodbye!
Old 11-23-2010, 11:32 AM
ConservaBill ConservaBill is offline
Prepared
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 273
Thanks: 8
Thanked 212 Times in 112 Posts
Default

Bonehedz, I concur.. To "battle" in my simple mind, would infer <300 yard encounters (anything greater than that the greater concern would be weight... as I high-tailed it out of there). since the OP was indeed about "battle" and not "sniping", given the consideration of costs and the value of a dollar spent today toward SHTF preps, the Saiga .308 is a hands down winner.. I've shot with some fine shooters.. NONE that can't shoot within any 2moa parameters offhand.. (and if we are talking about sniping, my old butchered-up 03a3 is what I'd be hunkered over anyway)..
SURE.. I'd LOVE to have a $4,000.00 tactical M14 or whatever.. but reality (or maybe that is my tightwad Mother talking?) tells me that I can have six or seven Saigas and a hat full of ammo for that price!

I think this going the way of the age-old AR/AK debate.. there is a high degree of emotional investment in the ARs, and just like sports teams once you've made that "emotional investment" it is hard to sway ones opinion.. AK guys are pretty emotionally attached as well..

... the latter can just afford more ammo!

Saiga .308 WILL be my next investment.. and like my AKs will get a name (that emotional investment thing again).. and his name shall be... THOR!

ONE QUESTION... Any experience running reloads through one?
Old 07-21-2011, 10:29 AM
Chingu Chingu is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 15
Thanks: 15
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default

In Russia Saiga 308 is used because of the ban on hunting for large animals with 7,62x39.
It's cheaper than Tiger 308 and Vepr 308.
Old 07-21-2011, 10:40 AM
Jeffrey's Avatar
Jeffrey Jeffrey is offline
Opinionated old fart.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South Carolina
Age: 47
Posts: 8,044
Thanks: 1,261
Thanked 6,983 Times in 3,331 Posts
Default

Okay I'm a gun snob. I admit it and those here that know me will not dispute it. Saiga is not very accurate (equal to an AK), but reliability is fine (which was NOT the case 20 years ago). For the price it's a good deal - but not worth spending money to dress up with. Buy it and leave it alone.
Old 07-21-2011, 10:40 AM
wtr100's Avatar
wtr100 wtr100 is offline
bring the pain
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,564
Thanks: 90
Thanked 2,862 Times in 638 Posts
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssonb View Post
i own a saiga 308-1 with a 20'' bbl i had a 3x9 scope mounted but because of the way the mounts attach on the side i could not keep a zero even out to 100yrds. removed the scope and used the iron and was able to hit the 4'' skeet targets at 50 and 100 yrds with no problem.yes the mags are $$$$ but the rifle is solid reliable.i have stuck with the 8rnd and just buy a couple a year.heck the M1 Garand only held 8.this is a great gun for converting cover into concealment.

Mentioning the M1 Garand and saiga in the same paragraph?



BURN THE HIERATIC
Old 07-21-2011, 03:31 PM
indie indie is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,079
Thanks: 795
Thanked 751 Times in 382 Posts
Default

at $250 jump on it. Dont even worry about if it works for you or not. You cant lose money on the rifle.
Old 07-23-2011, 05:25 AM
BumblingBear's Avatar
BumblingBear BumblingBear is offline
Super Saiyan Survivalist
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 32
Posts: 3,224
Thanks: 1,368
Thanked 3,577 Times in 1,489 Posts
Default

OP - do what you want and don't let anyone tell you different.

What weapon you choose is largely irrelevant. What matters is training and physical fitness.
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Kevin Felts 2006 - 2012,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net