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Firearms General Discussion Rifles, pistols, shotguns, scopes, grips and everything in between.

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Old 09-27-2009, 10:44 PM
lexmark lexmark is offline
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Default Why do some firearms cost so much?



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alright, another noob/drunk question but i'm curious, why do firearms cost so much? They are just hunks of steel, plastic or wood, what parts in a firearm cost the most, the barrel?

I purchased a high quality umarex beretta 92 replica air pistol last year, it is probably more accurate than the real thing at the 15 meter range. I took it appart a few times and found out that it has dozens of parts in it and about 10 small springs, it took me hours to put it back together...

My point is, my airgun that costed me $200 has much more parts and probably more labour involved in putting it together than a real 92fs has, so why is the real deal sold for hundreds more?

I notice it is the other way around when we talk about quality air rifles, a cheap .22lr can outperform a +600 air rifle....
Old 09-27-2009, 10:54 PM
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You wasted $200 on something that can't even kill?
You could have had, say, a Bersa Thunder .380 for another $60.

Aaaanyway: guns are expensive because they are useful, and because they are in high demand. An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man a slave.
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:56 PM
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Endif,

I really liked that statement. Thank you.
"An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a slave"
Old 09-27-2009, 11:03 PM
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#1 There is a great deal of research and development that goes into building a gun.

#2 Any 3rd world refugee can put a plastic toy together for far less money an hour than a skilled gunsmith or machinist. (Is there a union in there?)

#3 About 50% of the cost of a football helmet is liability insurance. How much do you think a gun company spends.

#4 There is a whole lot more to designing a firearm than an airsoft toy.



"God did not make all men equal, Sam Colt did."
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:05 PM
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Machining takes time and very skilled labor, the machines themselves, liability insurance, production overhead, demand, raw materials, payroll, advertising, research / testing ect....

I can get 3 dumb unskilled Chinamen and have them turn assemble airguns from parts all day long for next to nothing.
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:07 PM
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hum...it's probably more accurate than a real 92fs.

This sounds more like a airsofter's rant than anything else. Sorry, just calling it how I see it.

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Old 09-27-2009, 11:09 PM
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Default It's supply and demand

First you have the cost to produce a given gun. You have all the parts, what it cost to design the gun, any tooling to make the parts (molds for plastic, machining fixtures for barrels, etc.). You also have all the overhead for the company: advertising, executive salaries, a big legal staff for when Michael Bloomberg sues them, etc. The parts and labor to make the gun are on a per gun basis, the fixed costs are spread over all the guns.

Second, you have demand. The more desireable the gun, the higher price people will pay. Lots of people will pay $800 for a nice bolt rifle. People will pay $200 for a mediocre handgun, $600 for a decent one, $1200 for a really sweet gun. Plenty of people will pay $800-$2000 or more for an AR.

Economists make a plot of the supply curve: the higher the price, the more guns will be supplied by manufacturers. They plot the demand curve: the higher the price, the less guns will be bought by customers. Where the two curves cross, that's where the market price is.

For instance, I don't think an AR costs much more to make than a nice bolt gun (both in .308), but the AR costs a lot more. People are willing to pay it, maybe because it's cool, maybe because they impress their friends, maybe because if they're ever in a firefight they're much better off with a semi-auto with 20 round mags and a light on the forearm rails.
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Old 09-28-2009, 12:58 AM
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Firearms require stronger, higher quality materials than airsoft guns do. These materials are more costly to machine also. Airsoft can have simple cast parts. Some firearms have cast parts too, but even casting a high strength part is still expensive. There's also the legal costs, insurance, etc. Then look at the industry in general. The firearms industry is an expensive one, and it's a costly one to maintain a presence in. Advertising costs are far and above anything in the airsoft or airgun world.
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:19 AM
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Like others have said firearms have many finely machined parts. The higher quality the firearm the more work that goes into it. The hardening processes alone are very skilled and delicate work that need to be done by skilled craftsman. The firearm also has to survive 100000 or so small explosions. This is a lot of ware and tear. Also like I thought I saw others mention the liability insurance gun makers have to hold is outrageously expensive.
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Old 09-28-2009, 03:49 AM
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Obama = Firearm high prices
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:48 AM
lexmark lexmark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENDIF View Post
You wasted $200 on something that can't even kill?
You could have had, say, a Bersa Thunder .380 for another $60.

Aaaanyway: guns are expensive because they are useful, and because they are in high demand. An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man a slave.
wow, I think that is the most ignorant comment i've ever read, congrats


Do people purchase .22l's for self defense or "killing"? no, a lot buy them to practice with cheap ammo, same goes with air guns. I fired 3000 pellets within the past 3 weeks and it costed me $30, i've also fired 1200 rounds within the past 3 weeks and it put a dent in my bank account.
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:52 AM
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~~~ edited by kev ~~~~

Last edited by kev; 10-03-2009 at 06:19 PM.. Reason: rude and disrupting behavior
Old 09-28-2009, 07:01 AM
lexmark lexmark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilaBOR View Post
First you have the cost to produce a given gun. You have all the parts, what it cost to design the gun, any tooling to make the parts (molds for plastic, machining fixtures for barrels, etc.). You also have all the overhead for the company: advertising, executive salaries, a big legal staff for when Michael Bloomberg sues them, etc. The parts and labor to make the gun are on a per gun basis, the fixed costs are spread over all the guns.

Second, you have demand. The more desireable the gun, the higher price people will pay. Lots of people will pay $800 for a nice bolt rifle. People will pay $200 for a mediocre handgun, $600 for a decent one, $1200 for a really sweet gun. Plenty of people will pay $800-$2000 or more for an AR.

Economists make a plot of the supply curve: the higher the price, the more guns will be supplied by manufacturers. They plot the demand curve: the higher the price, the less guns will be bought by customers. Where the two curves cross, that's where the market price is.

For instance, I don't think an AR costs much more to make than a nice bolt gun (both in .308), but the AR costs a lot more. People are willing to pay it, maybe because it's cool, maybe because they impress their friends, maybe because if they're ever in a firefight they're much better off with a semi-auto with 20 round mags and a light on the forearm rails.
ok that makes sense, supply and demand... i'm sure the price of a glock is jacked up because everyone wants them, unlike my pellet gun.
Old 09-28-2009, 07:05 AM
lexmark lexmark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radioman View Post
Like others have said firearms have many finely machined parts. The higher quality the firearm the more work that goes into it. The hardening processes alone are very skilled and delicate work that need to be done by skilled craftsman. The firearm also has to survive 100000 or so small explosions. This is a lot of ware and tear. Also like I thought I saw others mention the liability insurance gun makers have to hold is outrageously expensive.
I guess that would be the main difference, both require skilled machining but firearm parts are hardened, I didn't even think of that...
Old 09-28-2009, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexmark View Post
The more genius the designer, the simpler the design.

10 grains You my friend, just wasted money.
Old 09-28-2009, 07:50 AM
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Lol, I got a hunch why she wouldn't. Very clever momma
Old 09-28-2009, 08:04 AM
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Firearms have to take a LOT more operating pressure than any airgun to keep from blowing our face off, we also expect them to function EVERY TIME we press the trigger (if an airgun goes down, no biggie you stop playing, if a real gun goes down in a fight then you stop breathing) So they have to be made from better steels, be engineered more sturdy, be built to last and to go bang every time you press the trigger.

Explosive pressure handling is why you can get a single shot .22 for under a hundred bucks while a single shot .50 will run you over 2 or 3 grand in most cases.
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexmark View Post
PELLET GUN, NOT AIRSOFT get that through your head you idiot.

This pellet gun launches 10 grain pellets at 475 fps, the rifling grabs the skirt and spins it like a bullet, making it much more accurate than an airsoft gun. I own both airguns and firearms and know what each can do but my cp88 comp can make a ragged hole at 15 meters.

...
Nevertheless it is a toy. No need to argue about that fact. It is fun to shoot with it, but it is only a toy.

The parts of such a toy are very low cost, you can use cast parts (some .22 LR also use cast parts, because there is not much what the materials have to withstand. There is simply no need to machine parts that withstand a pressure of e.g. 2350 Bar (about 34000 PSI for a 9mm Para).

Furthermore the development of firearms devours money. You do not only pay the production cost of the firearm itself (production costs are higher, because of the materials), you also pay the development costs (which is logic, or?). In some cases you have to pay extra buck for the brand name and the image that comes with a gun.
Old 09-28-2009, 08:18 AM
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Default pellet guns

Uuhh I've got a pellet gun that shoots at about 1000 (yes that is one thousand) feet a second. They cost about $200.00 bucks now and are very quite and accurate. For taking small game and pests they work great.
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:35 AM
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They make air rifles large enough to take deer size game,My cousin and uncle use their's all the time for rabbit squirrel,and other small game.They make no noise and still fill the meat pot.I'd don't wonder why guns cost more than air rifles but they do serve a purpose.
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