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Old 02-17-2017, 10:01 AM
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Something that caught my eye the other day on youtube, the topic was the new Sig 320 being adopted. Someone said the military needed to get rid of the outdated Beretta design and go with something more modern.

Then the person said something along the lines of "modern like a glock." Or otherwise implied Glock is a modern design.

I started laughing and thought to myself the guy in the video knows nothing of handgun history.

From my article on Alloutdoor - The 1980s Was A Handgun Revolution.

1982 Glock introduced the Glock 17.
1984 SIG Sauer started production of the P226.
1985 Beretta M9 adopted.
1985 Ruger P-Series started production.
1987 FBI started looking for a new handgun., resulting in the 40 S&W.
1988 Glock 19 started production.
1990 40 S&W started production.


Here is an example article - The Ruger P-guns: The 80s are calling, they want their handguns back.

In reality, Glock design is three years older than the Ruger P series. So who has the more "modern" design?

Glock trigger - mediocre at best. We have had better trigger pulls for over 100 years.

Glock sights - look cheap. Why not use the industry standard three dot? My Glock 19 did not ship from the factory sighted in. The windage is off several inches at just 30 - 40 feet. I paid close to $600 for a handgun that the company was too cheap to even make sure it was sighted in?

My personal feelings, a firearm should come out of the box ready to go.

Reliability - Reliability is not a selling point, it is a requirement.

On the topic of reliability, you go to a car lot and ask why a certain car or truck is good. The sales person starts saying it has power brakes, power steering, anti-lock brakes.... hang on a second. All of those have been around for decades. Those are not selling points, they are requirements.

A firearm being reliable is not a selling point, it is a requirement.

Safety - I am not even going to talk about the lack of a safety. If someone justifies taking safety features off, if you live in southeast Texas lets meet up and I will take those pesky seat belts out of your car or truck.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:11 AM
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Glock pistols are great, and they are gaining popularity partly because of non-stop threads by folks trashing them.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by H2OMAN View Post
Glock pistols are great, and they are gaining popularity partly because of non-stop threads by folks trashing them.
I think you may have something.....This is like the 2nd or 3rd thread he started regarding Glocks.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:27 AM
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1992 hi-point firearms releases an even more modern pistol.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:46 AM
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Why are Glocks popular?

Because at the time they were introduced, very few good, reliable semi auto pistols existed.

You don't have to look all that far back in history to see when a majority of new semi auto pistols would jam consistently. Some even jammed when loaded with FMJ ammo. Hollow point bullets existed, but they performed so poorly that most knowledgeable shooters preferred to shoot cast lead.

Mell Tappan described pistol reliability in his book "Survival Guns" in 1979. While that information is now badly dated, that was the true state of the industry 40 yrs ago.

Colt 1911s jammed until a gunsmith widened and polished the feed ramp and lowered the ejection port.
Smith M59s jammed when feed hollow points.
Browning hi-powers did not jam, but the trigger sucked.
Glock did not exist, Ruger and Taurus did not make a semi in a defensive caliber.
Bersa, Raven, Jennings, and the Russian pistols were cheaply made junk, and
Sig pistols cost about the same as my first car.

Compare this with the true state of the handgun industry today.

Today most new semi auto pistols cycle harshly at first (couple hundred rounds), then do not misfeed or jam for the rest of their useful life. Many folks fire tens of thousand rounds through their pistol, and wear out magazines more often than they suffer a feed jam.

Since their main marketing advantage no longer exists, Glock is now in a real dog fight with Smith, Sig, and Ruger, to maintain market share. From what I have seen, Glock will continue to improve undesirable attributes, and add wanted features.

Every shooter will benefit from the competition.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:28 AM
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Since their main marketing advantage no longer exists, Glock is now in a real dog fight with Smith, Sig, and Ruger, to maintain market share. From what I have seen, Glock will continue to improve undesirable attributes, and add wanted features.

Every shooter will benefit from the competition.
In the 80's Glock forced the competition to improve their products, this resulted in a win-win situation for consumers. Today's competition will force Glock to improve their products, another win for consumers.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:33 AM
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Kev, what's the deal with all these threads? Are the click bait? Or were you beaten up by a Glock as a child? Glocks are popular for the basic reason that any popular thing is popular. People like them and/or consider them a good value. If you don't, that's fine.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pen View Post
I think you may have something.....This is like the 2nd or 3rd thread he started regarding Glocks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jknova View Post
Kev, what's the deal with all these threads?
Holster supposed to be here tomorrow.

Things might take a different turn next week.
Old 02-17-2017, 11:52 AM
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You know, I think most of this is more about the shooter than it is the guns. Not that some of the guns dont cause some of the problems, but thats usually because the manufacturers are trying to stay ahead of the curve and make as much money as possible, and often turn out things that arent all that great, but exactly what the shooters claim they want, you know, extended this, ambi that, super cool names that make them even more awesome, you know what Im talking about.

Perfect example of this is the 1911 and where its gone, which has really been nowhere good, which is to bad really. A properly spec'd 1911 is a great gun, antiquated or not.

Now, its headed into the polymer realm, with all the "new and improved" Glock wannabe copiers/imprrovers. Glock is itself basically a HK wannabe, just one that picked up the ball running, found the sweet spot, and has been riding it hard ever since. Even HK couldn't catch up, but then again, HK screwed a lot of us back int the 80's and 90's, and that bad taste has never really gone away, so there is still some animosity there for some of us. **** HK! .....oooh, sorry, did I type that out loud?

When you get right down to it though, its still the whining, little shooter, who seems to be the real issue, and who seems to have SOOooo much trouble with things like triggers, grips, sights, etc, that they cant possibly shoot those important tight little bulls eye groups, unless they have some sort of fancy super tuned up gun that more often than not, isnt 100% out of the box, needs a lot of break in, on your dime, in time and ammo, needs constant attention/fiddling after that, and rarely does anything but go from the safe to the range, pops off a couple of rounds between the BS sessions, and then gets cleaned and put back in the safe in that little special throne with the spotlight on it.

Maybe if we, the shooters, were more well rounded and experienced, things would be a little different.

W(ho)TF am I kidding!?!? Whiners gotta whine.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:56 AM
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The Glock like a 1911 is easier to shoot than a DA/SA or DAO. Handguns take practice and good technique and humans being lazy tend to seek the path of least resistance.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:00 PM
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Glock is, like it or not , the sweet spot between form, function and price. It’s what everything else is measured against.

There is little to nothing any but the most ‘edge’ users need a defensive handgun to do that a Glock doesn’t do well enough.

It’s like MS Excel. It works well enough and it’s cheap enough for pretty much everything. Is it the best for anything? Maybe, maybe not but is it good enough – yup.

why does dear leader have so many questions about glock
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jknova View Post
Kev, what's the deal with all these threads? Are the click bait? Or were you beaten up by a Glock as a child? Glocks are popular for the basic reason that any popular thing is popular. People like them and/or consider them a good value. If you don't, that's fine.
dibs on JK's ammo when he gets the ban hammah!

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Old 02-17-2017, 12:04 PM
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If you pretend you are a space alien who got shipwrecked on earth and want to find a practical weapon because your death ray got smashed upon crash landing ... you don't care about history, you don't care about looks, you don't care what your brother in law or your gun club buddy think, you don't care about what you qualified on back when you were in the Army, you don't care about what the old-timers approved or talked about when you were a kid first learning about guns, you don't care what's on the cover of any magazine ...

You care about reliability, effectiveness, easy maintenance and that's it ...

Glock would end up on your short list. I'm not saying it would be the #1 choice necessarily. Maybe yes maybe no. But it checks all of the checkboxes, if you look at guns as tools without any filters pertaining to nostalgia and similar concepts.

Why Glocks, specifically, are popular:
- Originally: Because they were a game changer in gun design.
- Today: Because they have vast aftermarket support and because nobody has made a clearly superior version (unless you fixate on one particular feature the other gun has that the Glock doesn't, eg modularity)

It's a ~$500 gun that is easy to find and has a reputation for reliability, enormous aftermarket support, with no serious drawbacks, that has been around long enough that it's well-known and not something you only discover if you scour gun magazines and Web sites. Why wouldn't it be popular?
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:06 PM
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And how come none of ewes guyz have chimed in on my gen 2 glock thread -

I see Kev is head honcho - I see how ya are :P
Old 02-17-2017, 12:12 PM
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And how come none of ewes guyz have chimed in on my gen 2 glock thread -

I see Kev is head honcho - I see how ya are :P


I've never had a Gen 2. I used to have a Gen 3. My wife hated the grip so I traded it for a Gen 4. She's happy so I'm happy. I've shot a Gen 2, but this is before I got into Glocks so I wasn't looking for fine points.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jknova View Post
If you pretend you are a space alien who got shipwrecked on earth and want to find a practical weapon because your death ray got smashed upon crash landing ... you don't care about history, you don't care about looks, you don't care what your brother in law or your gun club buddy think, you don't care about what you qualified on back when you were in the Army, you don't care about what the old-timers approved or talked about when you were a kid first learning about guns, you don't care what's on the cover of any magazine ...

You care about reliability, effectiveness, easy maintenance and that's it ...

Glock would end up on your short list. I'm not saying it would be the #1 choice necessarily. Maybe yes maybe no. But it checks all of the checkboxes, if you look at guns as tools without any filters pertaining to nostalgia and similar concepts.

Why Glocks, specifically, are popular:
- Originally: Because they were a game changer in gun design.
- Today: Because they have vast aftermarket support and because nobody has made a clearly superior version (unless you fixate on one particular feature the other gun has that the Glock doesn't, eg modularity)

It's a ~$500 gun that is easy to find and has a reputation for reliability, enormous aftermarket support, with no serious drawbacks, that has been around long enough that it's well-known and not something you only discover if you scour gun magazines and Web sites. Why wouldn't it be popular?
Good call. It was widely speculated that the early Glock grip was shaped to fit space aliens.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:45 PM
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Glocks are the Barbi doll pistol, just like the AR15 is the Barbi doll carbine/rifle. Both platforms can be tailored to almost anyone's taste and requirements. Also the simplicity and reliability of the Glock pistol add to it's reputation. I have Glocks and AR15s, neither are my favs but both have their proper place in my gun safe and in my plans. If push truly comes to shove, those 2 platforms will be my first choice beause of their ubiquity and my familiarity with them.
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Old 02-17-2017, 02:23 PM
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What's this "Glock" I keep hearing about?
Old 02-17-2017, 02:59 PM
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Glock made a reliable autoloader that was marketed as a good transition from DA revolvers (not that I ever believe it). Glock was then able to drop the price point for larger contracts and once they got their foot in the LE market, they took off.

Once you get large numbers in the market, the market shifts to offer more accessories and options. It helps that Glocks are pretty user-friendly and relatively easy to work on. Their looks are debatable, their trigger is debatable, their ergonomics is debatable...but their reliability has been solid and consistent over the years.

ROCK6
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Old 02-17-2017, 04:33 PM
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Good God, are we really starting this again Kev????
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