Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > General Discussion Section > General Discussion
Articles Chat Room Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files



General Discussion Anything non-survival related - news and information, current events, general chit-chat stuff.

Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-01-2009, 06:42 PM
wchancey's Avatar
wchancey wchancey is offline
The Over 40 Club
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Clare Co Mi
Age: 63
Posts: 1,412
Thanks: 333
Thanked 1,450 Times in 667 Posts
Default wood pellet stoves, deep cycle battery's and sloar charging system



Advertise Here

I would like to have a battery back up system for my pellet stove, that starts out small but that I can keep adding to and eventually end up large enough to run totally independent of the electrical grid.

Can anyone point me in the direction of how many deep cycle battery’s I would need to be able to run 24 hours a day in the winter , by switching them out while charging others with solar powered battery chargers.

When I try and do my own searches I keep getting lost and not finding what I want. And if you could help with the size solar cells I would need to charge deep cycle battery’s and what size inverter that would be great.
Old 07-01-2009, 06:48 PM
blackkitty's Avatar
blackkitty blackkitty is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: BC - Canada
Posts: 6,545
Thanks: 6,808
Thanked 5,796 Times in 2,766 Posts
Default

I don't know much about it but don't you need lots of sun to be cost effective...like Arizona/California sun?
Old 07-01-2009, 07:23 PM
ImbriD ImbriD is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,547
Thanks: 480
Thanked 1,338 Times in 657 Posts
Default

What kind power consumption are you looking at? Once you figure out the power needs, usually in watts, divide the watts by 12 (volts) to get amps needed. Once you get your amps you can then figure out how many batteries you need. Average 12v deepcycle batteries are 105ah(amp hour). After you come up with your batteries then multiply that by 2.

For example, we have a dorm fridge that takes .9 amps at 110v, which equates to roughly 10 amps at 12v. So 2 1/2 batteries could run the little fridge for a day, but that would majorly deplete them, so in this case 5 are needed so the batteries don't go below 50%.

For recharging you need to be able to put that amount of amperage back into the batteries. An 80watt solar panel will give you roughly 5 amps per hour of usable sunlight. Most estimate 6 hours of max usable sunlight per day. So to recharge the system for the fridge, we'd need 8 80 watt panels.

Keep in mind this is a rough example assuming that the fridge and compressor run 24/7. Power consumption would vary, but that's how you figure it all up. You also have to figure in inverter loss. Good inverters usually have 90% efficiency.
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to ImbriD For This Useful Post:
Old 07-01-2009, 07:26 PM
HotPrepper's Avatar
HotPrepper HotPrepper is offline
woefully unprepared
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cornville, Hoosierland
Posts: 1,488
Thanks: 355
Thanked 803 Times in 488 Posts
Default

Would be sweet to run a little steam engine powered off the stove heat. Should be plenty to run the auger/small gen for the solenoids and t-stat.
Old 07-01-2009, 07:35 PM
divinginn's Avatar
divinginn divinginn is offline
Falcons
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: north georgia
Posts: 1,159
Thanks: 2,932
Thanked 1,039 Times in 519 Posts
Default

You would need to find out the power requirements of the wood stove,I would not think it would be too much,if it is just a fan I would think a few batteries and a inverter would do it. You could also recharge the batteries from a vehicle pretty fast. In my hunting camper I run a small tv,ceiling fan and flor. lights off 2 batteries,they usually last half a day or so and they are pretty weak.
Old 07-01-2009, 07:37 PM
Brother Buck Brother Buck is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Banifornia
Posts: 7,233
Thanks: 1,675
Thanked 7,019 Times in 3,311 Posts
Default

We had a pellet stove in Colorado when I lived there and they work awesome under normal power but suck in a grid down situation.
I decided I would likely not bother with another pellet stove in a new cold weather house as a result, we were very rural and power went down frequently in Winter.
Use Imbrids guide.
It is pretty well accurate for what you need to consider.
Maybe you would think of supplementing solar with wind and possibly a third back up source like a generator or a Weza from Freeplay.
Old 07-01-2009, 10:35 PM
almac's Avatar
almac almac is offline
Prophet
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: BC CANADA
Posts: 1,231
Thanks: 467
Thanked 600 Times in 355 Posts
Default

the thing ii dont lie about pellet stoves, is that you still have to rely on outsourcing for your pellets. its not like you can just make your own.
I would just go with a regular wood stove. at least a guy can find his own firewood if things got bad...

peace
al
Old 07-01-2009, 10:41 PM
ImbriD ImbriD is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,547
Thanks: 480
Thanked 1,338 Times in 657 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by almac View Post
the thing ii dont lie about pellet stoves, is that you still have to rely on outsourcing for your pellets. its not like you can just make your own.
I would just go with a regular wood stove. at least a guy can find his own firewood if things got bad...
Too true. I was interested in finding a regular wood and coal burning stove until I found that coal is nearly non-existent down here. Coming from PA I naturally figured coal was abundant everywhere
Old 07-02-2009, 09:15 AM
fzxdf5 fzxdf5 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default

The following is kind of long but is a good outline of what you will need to do if you truely want the thing to work for longer than a couple of days (it all depends upon your local utilities and what you are planning for)

I have a remote cabin with no power, I researched who has pellet stoves that already run on 12 volts (only 1 and it is a power hog). So the next step was to look at what electrical components, on the simplest ones in the market place, took all the power. #1 was the blower fan beleive it or not...#2 was the feed auger...#3.a depending upon design was the pot agitator...#3.b the controls electronics. I've looked at both the DC and AC/DC inverter models and found that a combination of the two works the best.

One thing I must caution this retro-fit is not cheap.

In the European market there are a whole bunch of 48VDC motors that work great for the high torque needs of the auger (cars there function at higher voltages and are more effiencent). The blower motor I found the labels to be wrong most of the time (need to get one and measure it) but if you can find a shunt wired rare earth magnet DC motor those have the RPM's and they sip the power.

With all this in mind...you have a power budget to keep too...If you go over you will put your batteries into discharge, this is ok if you live in a nice sunny place and have the solar, hydro, or wind generation ability (better to pick 2 because bad weather for one is not for the other) but this also increases the over all cost of the system and the need to perform basic mechanics for repairs.
The Following User Says Thank You to fzxdf5 For This Useful Post:
Old 07-02-2009, 12:49 PM
wchancey's Avatar
wchancey wchancey is offline
The Over 40 Club
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Clare Co Mi
Age: 63
Posts: 1,412
Thanks: 333
Thanked 1,450 Times in 667 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fzxdf5 View Post
The following is kind of long but is a good outline of what you will need to do if you truely want the thing to work for longer than a couple of days (it all depends upon your local utilities and what you are planning for)

I have a remote cabin with no power, I researched who has pellet stoves that already run on 12 volts (only 1 and it is a power hog). So the next step was to look at what electrical components, on the simplest ones in the market place, took all the power. #1 was the blower fan beleive it or not...#2 was the feed auger...#3.a depending upon design was the pot agitator...#3.b the controls electronics. I've looked at both the DC and AC/DC inverter models and found that a combination of the two works the best.

One thing I must caution this retro-fit is not cheap.

In the European market there are a whole bunch of 48VDC motors that work great for the high torque needs of the auger (cars there function at higher voltages and are more effiencent). The blower motor I found the labels to be wrong most of the time (need to get one and measure it) but if you can find a shunt wired rare earth magnet DC motor those have the RPM's and they sip the power.

With all this in mind...you have a power budget to keep too...If you go over you will put your batteries into discharge, this is ok if you live in a nice sunny place and have the solar, hydro, or wind generation ability (better to pick 2 because bad weather for one is not for the other) but this also increases the over all cost of the system and the need to perform basic mechanics for repairs.


I am guessing that #3a was supposed to be the ignitor , I could be wrong about that. Now when I hooked up my Kill-a-Watt , I found the biggest electrical drain to be the ignitor.

I wanted to see if in an emergency I could run it off my car battery, auger worked fine , the fan worked fine , but when the ignitor tried to start the flame it blew a fuse. I was just using a small inverter , had if I have had a larger inverter I think it would all have worked ok.

I have seen small solar panels that charge a car battery fairly quickly at a reasonable price , I know it would take longer for a deep cycle battery to charge but, if you had a few battery's and a good inverter. I think it could be done not cheaply, but it could be done.

I also have a generator that will charge battery's or run the stove, but that might take a lot of gas over time, and if there is no gas to be had that would be a problem.

I know a wood stove would be much more simple for most people, but I have heart problems and with that comes breathing problems, so cutting , stacking , hauling, and the smoke that comes with burning wood is not for me, I bring in one 40lb bag a day vacuum it out once a week and I am done. Plus I buy my pellets off season when they are cheaper and I have close to a two year supply.

I know it doesn't cost much to run electric wise, but maybe there won't be any electricity either , I like redundancy in all my plans.

And as far as your cabin goes, depending on size, there is a pellet stove made for hunting camps that requires no electricity , as long as it isn't to big of an area.
Old 07-02-2009, 02:03 PM
Raines's Avatar
Raines Raines is online now
Proud Infidel
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Midwest
Age: 68
Posts: 1,365
Thanks: 4,623
Thanked 3,129 Times in 973 Posts
Default

I replaced my pellet stove with a regular cast iron stove. I liked the pellet stove but after 2 failures and a power outgage I went back to the old one.

Peace of mind, priceless.
Old 07-02-2009, 02:21 PM
Wetwork's Avatar
Wetwork Wetwork is offline
Steel True Blade Straight
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Orygun
Posts: 795
Thanks: 912
Thanked 1,015 Times in 440 Posts
Default

Just a thought... if the weather is crummy enough to knock your power out its probably crummy enough to not let enough sunlight in to re-charge your batteries. So you'd maybe get two days out of the best 2 battery set-up. Unless you get a genset to back up, your back-up you're not gonna last long. I'm planning on going to a pellet stove (I'm lazy he-he), to replace my standard woodstove. However the wood one is going into the barn where if need be I can just go get it. I have a fireplace, and a oil furnace as well so I'm not worried about those week long blizzards. Solar isn't as efficient as you'd think especially in the winter.-WW
Old 07-03-2009, 10:28 PM
almac's Avatar
almac almac is offline
Prophet
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: BC CANADA
Posts: 1,231
Thanks: 467
Thanked 600 Times in 355 Posts
Default

until i can find a way to make pellets myself i will not use or rely on a pellet stove.
id rather the simplicity of a regular wood stove like this:
http://www.marinestove.com/sardineinfo.htm

peace
al
The Following User Says Thank You to almac For This Useful Post:
Old 07-04-2009, 06:44 AM
disidoro disidoro is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Central NY
Posts: 1,069
Thanks: 167
Thanked 1,273 Times in 515 Posts
Default

I have to go with the wood stove crowd. In my shop I'm the only one with a wood stove. 3 other guys have pellet stoves. 2 work great when the power is on and the third is a lemon I think. Some pellet stoves also need to be tuned for certain pellet manufacturers. When you need it the most, your stove may not be running and there are too many things that can go wrong/bad. You don't need that worry when the power is out, the sun is down or TSHTF. I'd get something you'll never have to tinker with.
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Kevin Felts 2006 - 2012,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net