Are Red Dot optics emp-proof?

[zerjuuk]

I understand that the 123a batteries may not survive, but will a high quality red dot like an Aimpoint survive an EMP? Or an Eeotech?

And are the tijicon sights the way to go to be completely emp-proof?

If all else fails iron sights are the most emp-proof things.

[89M1009]

the trijicon sights are the way to go

[Wolfe]

I don't really know how Red Dots work. How do they work? I mean, I can aim with it but how does it function on the 'inside'?

[bushwacker73]

I stay away from site's or scopes that take batterie's. Batterie's and electronic's fail. That's O.K. for a radio but not your scope.

[zerjuuk]

Me and my friends made it a goal to have an answer to this by the end of the day. I was hoping to find a simple yes/no.

What we found is its possible for an led to survive an emp by itself. A red dot scope attached to a rifle is small enough that it won't amplify the emp too much. So if the red dot is a simple battery to switch to led set up its possible for it to survive. So the cheapy 15 dollar red dots have a better chance of surviving. But Aimpoints strong part, its long battery life is its downfall. The acet inside will fail.

So we never came up with a solid answer. But cheaper red dots might still work after an emp.

[BackBlast]

First, let me state, your question is ambiguous. There are different ways to get hit with EMP. I'm going to assume we're talking about a high-altitude nation-wide EMP strike. Close range EMP is different and much more stuff is vulnerable to it, but generally, you have other concerns than electronic equipment - like shelter.

Originally Posted by zerjuuk

Me and my friends made it a goal to have an answer to this by the end of the day. I was hoping to find a simple yes/no.

The simple answer is virtually no red-dot rifle sight will be negatively effected by high altitude EMP. Buy any red-dot you like with full confidence and expectation that it will continue to function in a post-EMP world.

I am a fan of Aimpoint myself.

What we found is its possible for an led to survive an emp by itself. A red dot scope attached to a rifle is small enough that it won't amplify the emp too much. So if the red dot is a simple battery to switch to led set up its possible for it to survive. So the cheapy 15 dollar red dots have a better chance of surviving. But Aimpoints strong part, its long battery life is its downfall. The acet inside will fail.

So we never came up with a solid answer. But cheaper red dots might still work after an emp.

Lets go with the longer answer. The atmosphere attenuates most energy above around 150 to maybe 200 Mhz (it's a gradual thing), with a spike in the infrared/visible light/ultraviolet spectrum.

To receive significant amounts of energy you have to have an appropriate receptor for the wavelength you're dealing with. We're ultimately only worried about the stuff 150 Mhz and below, roughly the 2 meter range. Effective receivers are going to be 1/4th wavelength, or about .5 meters (~1.6 feet). So the concerns are unshielded coils, other wires, or circuit board traces, conservatively, 1.3 feet or longer in length. All FM radios fit the bill of a vulnerable compact electrical device.

It's entirely impossible to predict exactly which devices are vulnerable and which aren't without a complete investigation of the board construction and a part list, and even then there are some not entirely predictable effects from construction variances, coupling, case construction, etc. But suffice it to say that most electronics, especially small battery powered electronics, are probably not vulnerable when you don't have wires hanging off them to act as receptors. Including up to laptop size devices and UHF radios, I wouldn't be surprised to see many unprotected laptops and UHF radios working after an EMP if they weren't plugged in at the time. Though I would protect a laptop or radio I wanted to work if I anticipated an high altitude EMP, personally. I wouldn't worry about my red dot or mp3 player short of unplugging the headphones.

Yes, this is contrary to much of the common lore out there, but there you have a reasonably well researched guess. If it runs on a battery, it may well live.

Qualifications: I have a bachelors of science degree, I work at a company that builds RF communication equipment, and I have read the public EMP reports.

Disclaimer: I am not a RF or an antenna engineer, so while I'm exposed to the concepts - it is not my bread and butter training even though I'm playing one right now, nor am I directly privy to military EMP testing. This is "best guess" from my available information. My liabilities to any decision you make based upon it are limited to what you paid me for this information.

[stevegee58]

Anything with solid state electronics is subject to EMP damage unless it's specifically protected with enclosing shielding (i.e. Faraday Cage). This include laser diodes.

Ironically vacuum tube electronics aren't damaged by EMP.

[Christian]

Anything with silicon or germanium will die from EMP. Including electronic scopes. Why I have a few TUBE shortwave radios...

[MarksInnerDemon]

Originally Posted by bushwacker73

I stay away from site's or scopes that take batterie's. Batterie's and electronic's fail. That's O.K. for a radio but not your scope.

Well hell with that thinking you better not drive a car, shoot a firearm, or even deal with anything more complicated then a bow drill... and even that can fail.

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Jeffery.... Do you know that you can look at a red dot with both eyes open(like you should shoot) and even with mud on the lenses, or cracks the dot will still function. It's amazing what the eyes, brain and these red dots can do for you. Also a red dot can help make unconventional positions a bit easier to aim. Not to mention I left my Aimpoint on for 10 months straight so far and haven't changed the batteries yet thanks to new designs.

I totally agree that Iron sites are always needed, but even some firearms have had them fall off from 1911s, to AR-15s Sometimes craftmanship and other things will break anything.

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As for EMP proof, I doubt anything with a battery is.

[ilb01]

Originally Posted by MarksInnerDemon

Well hell with that thinking you better not drive a car, shoot a firearm, or even deal with anything more complicated then a bow drill... and even that can fail.

thats a bit harsh and unconstructive

Originally Posted by MarksInnerDemon

Jeffery.... Do you know that you can look at a red dot with both eyes open(like you should shoot) and even with mud on the lenses, or cracks the dot will still function.

you can aim with any sights with both eyes open. red dots, and holosights are easiest of course, but its good practice to use all your sights both eyes open.
what i have is a tasco scope with rails all over it (think its 4-10x40) it has illumination (which is crap. i never use it illuminated) the reticule is hardware like a traditional scope (mil dot deallyo) on top of that, mounted by all its wonderful rails is a reflex sight. soo, best of both worlds! quick and nasty shooting with the red dot, with scoped up snipage with the tasco.

[greenhorn]

I think I will save my money for Iron sites, and quality night sites over electronics....

[lexmark]

just get a small scope if you're worried about emp blasts

[d3athp3nguin]

I love electronics, but the problem with relying on them in a disaster is that they are as useful as your ability to provide power for them.

As others have noted: If it's digital, try to keep a mechanical backup with it. Got a GPS? Keep a map with it. Red dot? Keep those iron sights zeroed. Redundancy is the name of the game here.

I work at a datacenter, where EVERYTHING in this place can be monitored and controlled electronically. Regardless, many of our critical systems have mechanical or non-computerized fallbacks. For example, we have mercury thermometers all over the place so we can gauge temperature in an area in case we can't get readouts electronically. All of our critical call lists, emergency procedure manuals etc. are printed out and easily accessible, in case we cannot access our workstations. (On that note, how much survival info is saved to your PC? Now, how much of that is printed out so you can read it during a blackout?

[kef3stlmo]

I use a trijicon tripower as my red dot optic on my ar... also have an acog.

The tripower has a fiber optic coil that collects ambient light to illuminate the reticle, has tritium (really only good in the dark of night or with NVG) and third it has battery illumination as well. so 2 forms independent of batteries/electronics.

Even if an EMP fried the electronics you would have two back up methods of reticle illumination.



If you get one, look into a Po-Boy magnifier from LaRue tactical for magnification... also get a killflash attachment for the end of the trijicon.

[Jeffrey]

Always, always, always have iron sights and know how to use them. Even if its not an EMP, it might be dead batts, cracked lenses, mud, dropped rifle losing scope zero, etc.

[AKpredator]

Anything with solide state electronics is history in the event of EMP attack. Most likely it will come from a detonation at altitude, thuse maximizing EMP effects. If several warheads hit NYC or D.C., every suburb will be be hit by EMP.

Your batteries will be fine. No effect on them whatsoever.

An Aimpoint will be history, though.

[macmonkey]

Originally Posted by AKpredator

Anything with solide state electronics is history in the event of EMP attack. Most likely it will come from a detonation at altitude, thuse maximizing EMP effects. If several warheads hit NYC or D.C., every suburb will be be hit by EMP.

Your batteries will be fine. No effect on them whatsoever.

An Aimpoint will be history, though.

Not quite. EMP is still very mysterious and tests have proven that an EMP is very sporadic in what it kills and what it doesn't. I've read accounts that 2 computers can be sitting on a table and EMP is introduced and 1 is fine while the other is not.

I would bet money that something like an ACOG would not in any way be affected by an EMP. Always have backup iron sites anyways.

[AKpredator]

Originally Posted by macmonkey

Not quite. EMP is still very mysterious and tests have proven that an EMP is very sporadic in what it kills and what it doesn't. I've read accounts that 2 computers can be sitting on a table and EMP is introduced and 1 is fine while the other is not.

I would bet money that something like an ACOG would not in any way be affected by an EMP. Always have backup iron sites anyways.

ACOG's don't have any electronics. Aimpoint's, EOTech and others using batteries do and if they are exposed to EMP from an attack, they will likely be out of the game, along with anything else using unprotected, solid state electronics.

[rifle man]

The problem with prepping for an EMP, is that we actully have no idea what the damage would be, if one was detonated. The reality of the situation is that you would probably need a faraday cage, of which you wouldn't know what type to build, because, we do not know how, when or where the EMP would be detonated.

As far as Optics goes, I do not want a sight, scope or other optic that needs batts. as it seems to me that we will have enough to worry about, without wondering when and where my batts will die, and where I would get more.

[lockjaw]

The problem is, no one really knows 100% what EMP will and will not take out. As someone pointed out above, EMP is still a mystery (for the most part).

Check out the EMP Commission Report to get a bit more of an understanding of EMP and it's effects.

Also keep in mind to take everything people tell you with a grain of salt, especially if they don't cite the source of their information.