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Old 06-10-2009, 03:56 AM
MosquitoHunter MosquitoHunter is offline
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Default Affordable SHTF bugout rifle?



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Hi all.

I know this has been covered a bit but I'm wondering if someone could point me to an AFFORDABLE bugout rifle.
I just need to get to the rendezvous point that is stocked with tons o' supplies and a freakin' arsenal!.
I've read up on the "best SHTF rifle" thread and it's quite varied.
I suppose if I had my druthers I'd grab up a 30.30 Winchester Lever action, but they're pretty damn expensive.
I stopped into Sportsman's Warehouse and asked about what they'd recommend in a lightweight rifle.
They pointed me to either the Henry Survival Rifle or the Rossi Combo.
These are affordable but I'm not sold on the .22 caliber stopping power.
I suppose one could make the case that, if forced to bug out on foot, I'm best to avoid any confrontations on the way to the rendezvous, but I'd feel much better if I had the firepower if I needed it. I will have a well stocked bug out bag so I could see the need to protect what I have.

I do carry a .357 mag revolver so I have some ooomph there.

I'm looking for make and model and price if anyone has that info.

My Bro is a big fan of his 30.06 as is my Dad. Dad also has the venerable 30.30 Winchester. I just don't have the $600 or $700 right now to spend on one of these.

If I went the way of the Rossi Combo, understanding the limitations of the .22, how effective is the shotgun barrel on that? What kind of distance is it effective for?

Just out of curiosity, lots of folks really like the AK47 for survival/defense.
Where the heck do you buy one of these? What do they cost?

Also, what's the difference between a .22 round and a .223?
Is the .223 more effective?
I think they used a .223 in the M16 no?

Thanks, in advance, to all.
MH
Old 06-10-2009, 04:31 AM
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Well, after pondering it for awhile, considering that my destination is well stocked with firearms of a great variety, I wonder if I'm not ok just carying my .357 mag and a box of shells. I can kill game if need be as well as any bad guys who wanna stop me; assuming that they aren't better armed than I am, in which case I give them a wide berth.
I'm thinkin' that, if by the time I reach my safe haven, as is were, 25 miles away, I've gone through an entire box of shells, the world dun gone to hell and I'd be lucky to be alive!
I'd be battle tested by then!
Heck, just the fact that I'd be on foot to get there and not driving would suggest that the S dun hit the F!

But, having said all of the above, I'd be more able to "do battle" if I had a proper rifle, although for that situation an assault rifle is the weapon of choice.

I guess, for combat purposes, an inexpensive rifle probably won't do me any better than my semi-automatic handgun, no?

So, then it would be strictly for procuring food.
I know that a 30.30 or 30/06 is better for hunting, but how much better is a .22 rifle at hunting compared to my .357 pistol?

Sorry if I'm rambling.
It's very late and I've been pondering this way too much today.

Thanks again.
Hope I'm not being a bother.
MH
Old 06-10-2009, 04:45 AM
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Mosin Nagant. $150 tops, odds are you'll pay $100 for it, has a good calibre for deer hunting and can take down a small bear. Self defense is fine, most are single-shot, though, so don't miss(Or engage anyone with AK's)!

Ammo is affordable, gun is affordable :3 Good luck.
Old 06-10-2009, 05:09 AM
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A marlin 336 can be bought for about 350-400 dollars new. IT can easily take shots on deer at 150-200 yards depending on you. A scope is a nice addition, but not necesary.

A 30-06 is another good rifle, it adds range over the .30-30. However, do you need extra range? In wooded lot and small fields, that .30-30 would treat you well. I would stick to a popular cartridge for ease of finding ammunition. A semi-auto gives you more firepower, but a quick repeat shot of lever action is adequate in many cases too. Your handgun can offset the firepower too.

A 357 lever action rifle would be an excellent addition to your 357 handgun. It shoots 38 as well as 357. It can shoot a deer with a decently placed shot up to 100 yards. IT does deer OK, that .30-30 would be better. Handguns can be difficult to aim well enough for small game and can be limited range for deer hunting. OVerall, some people can hunt with a handgun some can not. Your typical small frame 357 handgun is not the ideal setup for hunting.

A .223 is a centerfire cartridge. a 22lr is a rimfire cartridge. .223 can kill deer, but a deer needs to be killed quickly. Without a well placed shot, a deer will run with all the strength it has. You may not find the deer. After you shoot a deer give it 15 minutes of peace, then look for it. Usually, the deer will lie down rather than keep running. Some states require a bullet diameter bigger than .223, usually .243 or more.

A .223 bullet weights about 20% more than a 22lr. A 22lr has roughly 1100 feet/sec velocity, a .223 has roughly 3000 feet/sec. Since power equals 1/2 X mass X (velocity)^2. The .223 has 9 times the power of a 22lr. .223 isn't bad, it's range without the bullet droping in trajectory much is about 400 yards. A AR-15 will generally shoot much better than the operator will.

7.62x39 firearms are popular. They usualy come in very reliable and affordable platforms. An AK-47 is very reliable, but some do suffer from poor accuracy some do not. Many say and SKS is more accurate. However, in stock form they only have a 10 round fixed magazine. They can be replaced with a 20 round removable magazine made by TAPCO in 20 round version. These are the only reliable magazine out there for a SKS. A AK-47 cost about 600 dollars. A SKS can be bought for 300-400 dollars. The 7.62x39 round compares well to a .30-30 in power and range. I prefer the SKS's myself, but will likely get a AR-15 at some point too. People concern about their saftey purchase semi-autos because they are quick repeat shots, and can be reloaded quickly. Military arms are durable in rough enviroments, can be cleaned w/o fancy tools, and can keep shooting many rounds without overheating and jambing.

For a basic battery of weapons, this is what I reccomend. A handgun, A regular lever action or bolt action rifle, A shotgun, and a semi-automatic military based rifle. The semi-auto can take care fo the bolt action or lever's jobs, but just in case the US bans semi-autos and does not grand father them (likely not), then you have a centerfire rifle you know well.

22lr is an important caliber, this is your small game and cheap training rifle. This rifle will make you a much better shot for less money. Either get this one next, or a shotgun. Shotguns are extremely versitale. They do small game and self defense excellently, they do deer hunting OK. Their ragne is limited to 50 yards with birdshot and buckshot. Slugs are good to about 100 yards. A good 870 remington or 500 mossberg can be had for 400 new.

MY opinion. Buy in this order.

Shotgun (150 used to 400 new) (870 remington or 500 mossberg pump action 12 gauge)
22lr rifle (150) (marlin 60, ruger 10/22, or maybe a good used lever action)
semi-auto rifle (300-1000) (do you homework, buy what you want)

Most importantly, buy a rifle you like. If you can not afford it now, save up for it. Go to a public range, many shooters are very freindly folk and would let you try out their rifle.

Look well at what you need to do with your firearms. Where you will be using them, how far you need to shoot.

Last edited by sailinghudson25; 06-10-2009 at 05:17 AM..
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:07 AM
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^ great answer!
Old 06-10-2009, 10:41 AM
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I picked up a Rossi m92 Puma cambered in 357 a couple of months ago for $399. Not a nice as a winny 92 but nicer than I expected and a good shooter. On the plus side is that with a 20" barrel it is small and light and quick to shoulder. on the down side is it has no sling swivels. A few other short commings are that the magazine gate is stiff and hard on the thumb, it can be tweekaed though. the sights are weak and the short sight radius doesen't help, this can be fixed with either a tang or reciever peep sight. with a few trips to the range I am pleased with the gun and would have more rounds through it if I could easily replace the amo.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:47 AM
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Some cheap, reliable and powerful would be a Mosin Nagant, and for more light weight considerations, you could get an m44.

My other vote would be either a Marlin 336, which you might find new for about $350, used $250, or an sks.
Old 06-10-2009, 11:53 AM
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SKS would be my suggestion.
Old 06-10-2009, 12:18 PM
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Most left is .22, 2nd from the left is .223. As you can see there is a huge diffirence in size and power. The other two are respectively .270 and .308.

As affordable SHTF rifle I'd say AK, but I don't know how affordable AKs are right now in the US.
Old 06-10-2009, 01:03 PM
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brand new AK clones are available in the $500 range now. (www.classicarms.us)
Old 06-10-2009, 01:16 PM
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H&R/NEF Handi-rifle in .30-'06 single shot rifle. SB2-306 Add a couple of .32 ACP adapters and you can hunt small game with it as well as large game. Long range capability for hunting or sniping, especially if you add a scope. Could be relugated to hunting when you reach your other weapons.

http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/youth.asp

A typical price: http://www.nefguns.com/item/6833_HR_...i-Rifle_S.aspx
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:39 PM
MosquitoHunter MosquitoHunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailinghudson25 View Post

MY opinion. Buy in this order.

Shotgun (150 used to 400 new) (870 remington or 500 mossberg pump action 12 gauge)
22lr rifle (150) (marlin 60, ruger 10/22, or maybe a good used lever action)
semi-auto rifle (300-1000) (do you homework, buy what you want)
Hmmm.

Sounds to me like the Rossi Combo might get the first two on your list out of the way.
http://www.rossiusa.com/newsreviews/...dSetReview.cfm

I'm just concerned since this is geared for a "youth".
Obviously I need a serious weapon.

This, I believe, is a 20 guage shotgun not a 12 guage.
They also offer on that has a 50 cal barrel as well.

I held one at Sportsman's Warehouse last night.
Comfy and very lightweight.

Any reason this wouldn't fit the bill?
Is it real or is it a toy?
Will it last?

Thanks
MH
Old 06-10-2009, 09:34 PM
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AK47 is plentiful here and can go for around $500 for the lowest variant from Romania, which is actually the best type for SHTF because it is the lightest. The price was around $350-$450 before last November and went up to $900 two months ago only be to driven back down when all of the unprepared, newbies, and fools ran out of money.

AK47 is considered the best SHTF by many people because it is extremely reliable. It is also extremely deadly within 400 yards. It can still hit things out to 600 yards if you know what you're doing. Some people think that the power packing 7.62x39 round would just drop to the ground the moment it get to yard number 301 because the effective range is 300 yards. Well, I think those people read the internet forum too much and doesn't know how to determine facts on their own. A .22 lr can travel further than 300 yards; therefore, a much larger commie round can definitely go to 600 yards and still be able to do some damage. The shooter just needs to practice and aim appropriately. The sight on AK goes much higher than 300 yards and it should be used whenever appropriate.

A recent episode of Deadliest Warrior had the AK47 and AR15 competing against each other. The initial result is a dead tie with the AR15 won on accuracy and the AK47 won on reliability. The AK47 did shoot very accurately and demonstrate superior stopping power; however, the IRA representative scored higher shooting bench rest against the Taliban representative shooting off-hand standing up. The AK47 was extremely reliable while the AR15 jammed; therefore, I would take the AK47 any day of the week. The AR15 won the competition because the tie-breaker judge prefer the AR15 due to his extensive background with the AR15. Some people like AR15 but I will always take the AK47 as the first and only choice for true SHTF rifle.
Old 06-10-2009, 09:56 PM
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The Marlin XL7 is a synthetic bolt-action rifle that comes in .30-06. It's very light, packs a punch, compact, durable, accurate and it can be found under $300 new (in black).

Just another option.
Old 06-10-2009, 10:33 PM
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Saiga .223
Saiga 7.62x39


Either one will do.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:19 PM
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Have you thought about getting a less expensive rifle in the same caliber that you have the most of at your BOL. The idea being that you could use it as a back up later.
Old 06-11-2009, 10:53 AM
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Go withe SKS...great rifle for a SHTF. 10 rd stipper clips are available for quick reloading. Ballistics are roughly the same as the 30\30.
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:17 AM
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I would suggest a trip to the local pawnshop fo a Lever action on 30-30 or perhaps even a pistol caliber. Such guns are usually readily available and often at ridiculasly cheap prices. I realize the rush on guns is high and resulting in higher than usual prices but the economy is in the tank and many people have been forced to part with thier firearms inorder to do damage control of thier finances. This usually results in great prices and some real finds potentially. I know I have scammed on more than my fair share of deals too good to pass up.
Old 06-11-2009, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
These are affordable but I'm not sold on the .22 caliber stopping power.
Ask the poor security guard that was just killed at the holocaust museum by a .22 rifle, how deadly a .22lr is.

I don't know what kind of environment you will be evading , but a 18" barreled 12g pump ($200-$300) may be the best for getting out of an urban situation.

But the simple fact is, 99% of people are going to stray away from ANY firearm pointed in their direction.
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalypse Now View Post
But the simple fact is, 99% of people are going to stray away from ANY firearm pointed in their direction.
The sane ones anyway...but desperation does funny things to people. If we really get to the point where people are "going feral" en mass...things will get interesting to say the least...in that case a .22 won't help you much.
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