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Old 05-27-2009, 05:18 PM
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Default How to harden against an EMP?



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While cell phones would be great, I actually think my car would be better if an emp explodes. How does one harden against an EMP?

I'm reading a book that suggests that cars in underground garages are protected, which made me think about our place out in CO. All of our solar controls (inverter, batteries, the main control panel) is in our basement partially underground and cemented in. Now, I don't think the solar panels actually have electronics, but I'm not sure about all the cable going from the panels to the "control center".

How does the military harden against an EMP. Bc if we are nuked, that's part of it.
Old 05-27-2009, 08:30 PM
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Find an old microwave oven, chop the plug off, and put your smaller items (portable radio, walkie talkies) inside the oven and close. There, now you have an EMP proof box to hold your items when the SHTF.
Old 05-27-2009, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SurviveIt View Post
Find an old microwave oven, chop the plug off, and put your smaller items (portable radio, walkie talkies) inside the oven and close. There, now you have an EMP proof box to hold your items when the SHTF.

Very, very true.
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Old 05-27-2009, 08:43 PM
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Thanks for the microwave idea.

I was always told,(in the old Corp), you need 3 feet of dirt, or 18ins of cement around anything you want protected from a Nuke weapon blast.

Over.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:01 PM
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Then hit the thanks tab Jarhead!!!!!!??????? O.k. I'm zipping it....
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:13 PM
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Calm down dude. I was not trying to upset anyone.

Over.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:18 PM
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if an EMP hits the communications grid will be dead....

to the OP: Pretty sure if yer solar controls are still "Cabled up" to your panels... the EMP pulse would ride the cable to the electronics... someone more knowledgeable should be able to answer... there s a ton of EMP threads too...
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Steverino View Post
if an EMP hits the communications grid will be dead....

to the OP: Pretty sure if yer solar controls are still "Cabled up" to your panels... the EMP pulse would rife the cable to the electronics... someone more knowledgeable should be able to answer... there s a ton of EMP threads too...
That's what I was afraid of too. Even though we own a solar system, my knowledge about all the tech about it is severely limited. That's why I have a solar guy!
Old 05-27-2009, 09:27 PM
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if an EMP hits the communications grid will be dead....

to the OP: Pretty sure if yer solar controls are still "Cabled up" to your panels... the EMP pulse would ride the cable to the electronics... someone more knowledgeable should be able to answer... there s a ton of EMP threads too...
Well, thats debateable. I worked in the Central Office telecom for Bell South, Qwest, and a few others. Every piece of equipment they purchase MUST be EMP proof. Its not hard to EMP proof items, however, you must have some sort of breaker or lock out for EMP that rides down the wire as you mentioned. Im just not sure how thats accomplished with telecom equipment, but Im sure I could pull a few strings and find out.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:28 PM
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No offence JH, we are both old military. It was my perverted humor about Marines and Air Force. My humble appology, and thanks when you were fighting in the trenches, while I was, well I can't tell you without someone else spanking you! Needless to say, we were on the same side for a few years! Nuthin' but luv my Brother!
Old 05-27-2009, 09:30 PM
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Cool.

Over.
Old 05-27-2009, 09:57 PM
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Well, thats debateable. I worked in the Central Office telecom for Bell South, Qwest, and a few others. Every piece of equipment they purchase MUST be EMP proof. Its not hard to EMP proof items, however, you must have some sort of breaker or lock out for EMP that rides down the wire as you mentioned. Im just not sure how thats accomplished with telecom equipment, but Im sure I could pull a few strings and find out.
After talking with some expert friends, the EMP proof telecom equipment is indeed EMP proof right down to the telecom wires that go into the equipment. There is a choke that is installed that dumps the EMP to ground and then turns off the equipment. It can then be manually reset. So, there would be downtime until everything was reset. Thats a heck of a lot of equipment to manually reset! It could be days before telecom could be restored.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:19 PM
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My tinfoil hat is always close to my side, in case of an EMP attack.

In all seriousness, though, you can make faraday cages/boxes yourself to put your stuff in when you are not using it. I thought I saw a few threads on here about how to make them, but I couldn't find it -- you can always do a search on the internet...plenty of instructions on how to make them. The microwave...I've never heard of that particular strategy before and it sounds logical...

But I'm not an expert on protecting gear from EMP attacks...but I am a tinfoil hatter at times and believe that an EMP attack is likely to happen just based on the recent news breaks this year about it.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SurviveIt View Post
After talking with some expert friends, the EMP proof telecom equipment is indeed EMP proof right down to the telecom wires that go into the equipment. There is a choke that is installed that dumps the EMP to ground and then turns off the equipment. It can then be manually reset. So, there would be downtime until everything was reset. Thats a heck of a lot of equipment to manually reset! It could be days before telecom could be restored.
I work in a telco central office. The Nortel switch we have is not protected. Switches are so sensitive that you have to be grounded the the frame in order to touch them. They are usually in limited access rooms because just walking by them with the right kind of clothes can make them reboot. We had a guy vacuuming the floor with a shop vac one day and the thing sysloaded 5 times before we could get him to turn it off. And don't even bring a feather duster in my switch room, you will be shot.

The bell requirement is NEBS3. Everything in our office meets Bell and PSC regs.

Last edited by spacemanspiff; 05-27-2009 at 10:55 PM..
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Old 05-28-2009, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by spacemanspiff View Post
I work in a telco central office. The Nortel switch we have is not protected. Switches are so sensitive that you have to be grounded the the frame in order to touch them. They are usually in limited access rooms because just walking by them with the right kind of clothes can make them reboot. We had a guy vacuuming the floor with a shop vac one day and the thing sysloaded 5 times before we could get him to turn it off. And don't even bring a feather duster in my switch room, you will be shot.

The bell requirement is NEBS3. Everything in our office meets Bell and PSC regs.
Spacemanspiff,

Thanks for your info. There does appear to be a descrepancy here. But for the three years I worked in telecom offices, I can verify what you are saying about switch managers being very cautious about thier equipment. Although I have never seen or heard of a switch rebooting because of the clothes someone wears, or vacuuming, I have had switch guys get upset when I used my cell phone in the central office (even though we did in our telco test room all the time). Im not sure if its superstition, or fact. Further, being grounded is always a good thing, especially if you are installing telecom equipment before it is. It would be interesting to look up the current NEBS compliancy and see if there is anything in there regarding EMP protection.
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Old 05-28-2009, 06:59 AM
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Very, very true.
For the most part I agree, as long as EMP wavelength, is the same, or longer, than the magnetron wavelength, but by not grounding the "cage" you have diminished it's ability.
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by SurviveIt View Post
Spacemanspiff,

Thanks for your info. There does appear to be a descrepancy here. But for the three years I worked in telecom offices, I can verify what you are saying about switch managers being very cautious about thier equipment. Although I have never seen or heard of a switch rebooting because of the clothes someone wears, or vacuuming, I have had switch guys get upset when I used my cell phone in the central office (even though we did in our telco test room all the time). Im not sure if its superstition, or fact. Further, being grounded is always a good thing, especially if you are installing telecom equipment before it is. It would be interesting to look up the current NEBS compliancy and see if there is anything in there regarding EMP protection.
The clothes were silk Pantyhose, or underwear. I have never seen it happen but my father swears it can. High powered radios are a no no also. If it will work I use my cell phone next to the switch all the time. That thing puts off a lot of RF.

I remember my father talking about a guy who could just wave his hand close the the CPUs and you would start to see the LEDs flicker.
Old 05-28-2009, 09:56 PM
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Here away if you want to shield your stuff before it hits. Not my vids
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:12 PM
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Find an old microwave oven, chop the plug off, and put your smaller items (portable radio, walkie talkies) inside the oven and close. There, now you have an EMP proof box to hold your items when the SHTF.
micro waves gives off a differnt kind of radiation its not the same as from nuclear radiation, EMP. i really dought it will work. or the military could line all their vehicles or satilites with the wicrowave insulation and they would be immune to EMP's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_oven

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

if its above ground not even fuses would help protect your equipment.when a EMP wave comes it will energize all metal specially wire. every wire will carry a electronic pulse the longer the wire the stronger the pulse so an electical wire, antenna wire, or a cable wire will carry alot of elercticty to your equipment pending on the lenght of the wire. but even a small wire in your equipment may be enough to fry out 1 part of your equipment to make it not work. im not sure a fuse or a surge control would save it cause it will get through before the fuse or the surge control pops so that high voltage will still get through and fry it but it will keep it from catching fire.

i'm just guessing but maybe the best chance if you cant afford to buy protection or to bury it would be to unplug it take off ALL wires. maybe your stuff will survive or it may just burn out the wire that was pluged into it.i guess the question is how far an EMP will travel so if one goes off 200 miles away will it effect you and how long of a time frame do you have? and does it rise as it moves out like a nuclear blast does?

Last edited by Cryptkeeper; 05-28-2009 at 10:36 PM..
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Old 05-29-2009, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptkeeper View Post
micro waves gives off a differnt kind of radiation its not the same as from nuclear radiation, EMP. i really dought it will work. or the military could line all their vehicles or satilites with the wicrowave insulation and they would be immune to EMP's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_oven

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

if its above ground not even fuses would help protect your equipment.when a EMP wave comes it will energize all metal specially wire. every wire will carry a electronic pulse the longer the wire the stronger the pulse so an electical wire, antenna wire, or a cable wire will carry alot of elercticty to your equipment pending on the lenght of the wire. but even a small wire in your equipment may be enough to fry out 1 part of your equipment to make it not work. im not sure a fuse or a surge control would save it cause it will get through before the fuse or the surge control pops so that high voltage will still get through and fry it but it will keep it from catching fire.

i'm just guessing but maybe the best chance if you cant afford to buy protection or to bury it would be to unplug it take off ALL wires. maybe your stuff will survive or it may just burn out the wire that was pluged into it.i guess the question is how far an EMP will travel so if one goes off 200 miles away will it effect you and how long of a time frame do you have? and does it rise as it moves out like a nuclear blast does?
Your killin me "micro waves gives off a differnt kind of radiation its not the same as from nuclear radiation, EMP"

EMP and Microwave ARE the SAME type radiation, (Electromagnetic),(ONLY difference is frequency,wavelength,etc.)

A microwave uses a magnetron tube to obtain resonance with electrons, the generated electromagnetic wave has a dipole moment. The dipole moment vibrates "polar molecules", water being a polar molecule and abundant in most things cooking in a microwave. The polar molecule(s) vibration creates heat and warms the food. The inside of the microwave is usually designed(tuned) to be a resonant cavity for this wave.

EMP by definition is the same type of Electromagnetic Wave, in the simplist explanation: At time of detonation, high energy causes various electrons to release photons(some high energy(Gamma), this release is the primary component or (1) type of generated EMP.

Sorry, not trying to flame, just enlighten. Radiation types and definition are not well understood by most. Yep, I'm a Physics Nerd

Last edited by Robot; 05-29-2009 at 08:37 AM..
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