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Old 04-14-2009, 11:11 PM
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Default Blackpowder in a .30-30



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Heard this can be done in .30-30. Looking at my reserves, I have a lot more primers and bullets than powder for my .30-30. Have several bottles of pyrodex though. I also can cast .30-30.

Not a primary desire, but would like to know how it's done If I need to.
Old 04-15-2009, 12:27 AM
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It could be done, but why present yourself with the additional cleanup necessary with BP?
Old 04-15-2009, 01:07 AM
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I know about the messy corrosive part. I keep a cattleman rifle in good shape over here. Just looking at my options now and thinking of my options later.

Powder is tough to get. I am well set on .30-30 for now.............
Old 04-15-2009, 06:23 AM
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Sure you can do it. There's the cleanup issue but it's a no brainer. Do some research on the 'Net concerning loads and such with BP and if you have to you have the groundwork laid. I know several guys who reload shotgun shells with BP for the old damascus barreled guns. The last 30 in 30-30 means it was loaded with 30 grains of smokeless powder ( I believe the 30-30 or 30 WCF, was the first cartidge with the then new smokeless) As I said I would do some research and then make up my mind but it wil work. I just don't think I would like the cleaning part but then again I own near 30 muzzleloaders so I should not talk. LOL.
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Old 04-15-2009, 09:02 AM
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The 30-30 may have been the first to use smokeless powder due to it having been a Black Powder Cartridge to begin with and was able to adapt the new smokeless powder to use in it.

I would think you should be able to find some old load data just be carefull of the type of measure they call for. I believe many of the old blackpowder gun being blown up do to getting the measures mixed up.

One of the reason that modern reloading uses a scale rather than a scoop to measure was to stop people from loading the incorrect amount of powder into the cases.
Old 04-15-2009, 10:05 AM
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sure you can do it , and the pyrodex is way less clean up.looking at a 30-30 shell I think you could get maybe 35 to 40 grains of 3f powder. dont know how effective the light load would be. Might be you could load with 4f give ya a little more speed. Let us know how it works out.
Old 04-15-2009, 11:04 AM
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you can do it if you want i have several rifles that started as black powder,32-40 is one 165 grain bullet with 40 grains of bp.45-70,405 grain bullet and 70 gr of bp.clean up is the problem but in a pinch you could use it if you dont have anything else.
Old 04-17-2009, 04:59 PM
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If the chips were down I would certainly rather use my BP in cartridge guns than load from the front end.

With real BP you can not stuff enough into the case to blow the gun. I have used real black with all my cartridge rifles just to see how it preforms. No adverse effects and decent survival performance.

With pyrodex in any cartridge gun I would limit my loads to 30-50 grain charges. Pyro does some strange things.

If you are out of smokeless use the black and clean as needed.
Old 04-17-2009, 05:51 PM
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If you are casting the bullets, use a good BP bullet lube, it helps to keep the fouling in the barrel soft.
Old 04-18-2009, 09:39 PM
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The muzzle loader BP lubes will not work in cartridge guns. Too soft and runny.

Use a good alox/beeswax based lube or the syrupy stuff Lee makes.

Breach loading BP cuts the fouling problem down to a one shot level. You are loading from the rear and pushing the last shot's fouling out with each new shot. The lube is now needed to prevent leading and not soften the fouling.
Old 04-18-2009, 10:25 PM
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http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=637649

I was thinking of this or SPG lube for BP lube....
Both are specific to BP cartridge use...
Old 07-08-2009, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailinghudson25 View Post
Heard this can be done in .30-30. Looking at my reserves, I have a lot more primers and bullets than powder for my .30-30. Have several bottles of pyrodex though. I also can cast .30-30.

Not a primary desire, but would like to know how it's done If I need to.
Loading Modern Cartridge Guns with BP all follow one rule...Fill the Case with powder to the point that there is slight compression of that powder when selected bullet is seated to it's proper O.A.L.

NO firearm that uses Smokeless propellant in a cartridge can be overloaded by BP or it's substitutes...The energy is just not there..(And yes, I'm aware that a muzzle loader can be over loaded)

The Danger is underloading....Blackpowder that is loose tends to explode, rather then burn...This is the reason for the very highly stressed part of muzzle loading...MAKE SURE YOUR PROJECTILE IS FIRMLY SEATED AGAINST THE POWDER CHARGE...

Basically, Any firearm capable of firing a cartridge bought from walmart, can be shot with black powder, as long as there is no air gap in the reloaded round..

And, since the older Cart. designations such as the .45-70 don't give you granule size, you have to do some checking and testing....70 grains of FFFG, or maybe even FFG, may leave an air gap in the finished round....Use Common sense...Another 5-10 Grains volume of FFG or FFFG in a modern Smokless firearm to get rid of air gap won't hurt it, or you..

And don't forget to swab the bore every few shots....Muzzle loading gives you an indicator...when it gets harder to seat the ball/bullet, you need to run a cleaning patch down bore..
breech loading, you have to REMEMBER to wipe the bore, or you'll blow yourself up...

Chris Tulloch
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavegeo View Post
I would think you should be able to find some old load data just be carefull of the type of measure they call for. I believe many of the old blackpowder gun being blown up do to getting the measures mixed up.
They got blowed up by using brown, bulk, or smokeless powders in place of actual black powder....Right measures, wrong powders....

Chris Tulloch
Old 08-09-2009, 01:16 AM
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The .30-30 was the first ctg designed for smokeless powder. Smokless powder being new at the time, some people were reluctant to use it. So along came the .32 Win Spl. This one is the .30-30 necked up to .32 cal and with a barrel twist a little more condusive to blackpowder.

As far as casting for the .30-30. We tried all kinds of plain base bullets while working up loads for the Win 94 I used to use for the Tom Horn events in Cowboy Action Shooting. We were never able to get them to shoot with ANY degree of sucess. I then went to a Lee 170 gr flat nose bullet that is gas checked. This is the process of swagging a small copper base onto the bullet. The mould must be designed with a recessed base to make this possible. This gives the bullet a copper base (just like an ordinary jacketed bullet) so that during the time the bullet is in the bore the hot powder gasses do not erode the base of the bullet. With this type of bullet, my compitition loads were running 1750fps with very good results.

Cast can be made to work very well in a surprising number of guns. I also have a 180 gr gas checked bullet mould that I use for a friends .30-06 bolt gun and it works well. I have used the 170's in the 94 as well as a New England firearms Handi-Rifle to take 5 Mule Deer so far and they have performed well.

BTW Midway carried gas checks in many calibers. The last time I bought them ( Hornady are the one's to go with by the way) the were about $25.00/1000. Not sure how long 1000 will last me, but it should be a good long while as I am not finished with the last 1000 I bought 6 years ago and I was shooting alot more then as I was still in compitition. Hope this answers some questions.
Old 08-10-2009, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackrock View Post
The .30-30 was the first ctg designed for smokeless powder. Smokless powder being new at the time, some people were reluctant to use it. So along came the .32 Win Spl. This one is the .30-30 necked up to .32 cal and with a barrel twist a little more condusive to blackpowder.
Minor point...the .30 WCF, later the .30/30 Win (after Marlin and UMC) was designed for BP but it hadn't been offered to the public yet, so then it was switched to smokeless powder and became the first "American smokeless powder sporting cartridge" offered...

Doesn't include military or European cartridges in that statement gotten from Cartridges of the World...

The 8mm Lebel (8×50Rmm French) of 1887 is regarded as the first European smokeless military cartridge, conversion also from BP, but thusly the first SP round ever…

I know the .30US now called the .30/40 Krag-Jorgensen was the first American designed SP military cartridge in 1892!
Old 08-10-2009, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekHer View Post
Minor point...the .30 WCF, later the .30/30 Win (after Marlin and UMC) was designed for BP but it hadn't been offered to the public yet, so then it was switched to smokeless powder and became the first "American smokeless powder sporting cartridge" offered...

Doesn't include military or European cartridges in that statement gotten from Cartridges of the World...

The 8mm Lebel (8×50Rmm French) of 1887 is regarded as the first European smokeless military cartridge, conversion also from BP, but thusly the first SP round ever…

I know the .30US now called the .30/40 Krag-Jorgensen was the first American designed SP military cartridge in 1892!

30 WCF was designed as a smokeless powder ctg by Winchester. Check out the info in the link from Leverguns.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/3030history.htm
Old 08-10-2009, 08:47 PM
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Hey Blackrock,
I have a .375 Win. I am wondering if I can load it with BP.
Got any ideas?
Old 08-10-2009, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
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Hey Blackrock,
I have a .375 Win. I am wondering if I can load it with BP.
Got any ideas?
Ought to work great. The .375 Win is almost a duplicate of the .38-55ctg which was a popular BP cartridge. With cast bullets lubed with SPG lube it should be a real winner. You should be able to use reloading data (Blackpowder) for the .38-55 and be right there.
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:13 PM
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Cool.
Thanks.
Old 08-21-2009, 12:54 AM
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Has anyone tried this with other bottle neck cases like the 7.62x54r? I know this is a very old cartrage and possibly used originaly with bp but what are the rules for loading black powder.
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