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Old 04-03-2009, 10:33 PM
Littlemiss9419 Littlemiss9419 is offline
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I know that they are both similar but are homesteading and survivalism the same? Can someone explain that to me please?
Old 04-03-2009, 10:42 PM
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Homesteading goes back to the late 1800s. In those days you were given a grant of land by a government that you lived on, farmed or ranched for so many years. Generally, once you had been on the land for 7 years you filed a legal claim to it. Survivalism does not involve a land grant from a government of any sort. You sort of move on to some vacant or rural land, take over, set up shop and go from there. Legal ownership gets determined later on in some fashion of some sort.
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Herd Sniper View Post
Homesteading goes back to the late 1800s. In those days you were given a grant of land by a government that you lived on, farmed or ranched for so many years. Generally, once you had been on the land for 7 years you filed a legal claim to it. Survivalism does not involve a land grant from a government of any sort. You sort of move on to some vacant or rural land, take over, set up shop and go from there. Legal ownership gets determined later on in some fashion of some sort.
It was but thats not modern homesteading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homesteading
Old 04-04-2009, 12:56 AM
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Oh... Urban homesteading... Yeah, I've seen the results of that idea a couple of times. Here's what that idea is sort of about. Imagine you and your husband are yuppies but you want to impress upon people that you're really liberal people. So what you do is go into an economically depressed area, buy an old building and modernize it. The building costs you a bunch of money and the modernization costs a lot more money but, what the heck, you can afford it to prove your point. So, comes the day you and hubby move into the refurbished home in ghettoland. As you're moving into the place, all the local hypes, druggies and prostitutes are eyeballing you, your husband and all your possessions. These dopers are actually trying to figure out how much money they can get when they rip off your televisions, computers, antiques, jewelry and so on. It's sort of like when the old pioneers deliberately moved on to or set up homes on land owned by Apache Indians. Needless to say, the Indians did not appreciate being encroached upon by pioneer settlers. Same thing with urban homesteading. Inside of a week your Lexus has been hit, while parked on the street in front of your homestead, 4 different times. The only window that has not been broken is the back window and that has "a life expectancy" of about another hour or so. Three times somebody has tried to steal your purse from you so you've started carrying your money and credit cards in your bra until you get them ripped away from you while they're in the bra. Your husband has been arrested once because when he got of his vehicle to come into the house, two hookers propositioned him, he refused their offers and then got into an argument with them until the cops arrived. The two hookers, 3 local gang members and two pimps all told the cops that your husband propositioned the hookers then tried to rob them so he gets arrested and you get to spend the night in the homestead all alone. The next day you post bond for the husband and then start to re-think your idea about homesteading in the economically depressed area of the inner city. To get out of the area, you take a major loss when you sell your updated, modernized home that was burglarized while you were bonding hubby out of the clink. Don't do it is the best thing I can suggest to you. I've seen that sort of thing done a couple of times and none of them worked out well at all.
Old 04-04-2009, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Herd Sniper View Post
Oh... Urban homesteading... Yeah, I've seen the results of that idea a couple of times. Here's what that idea is sort of about. Imagine you and your husband are yuppies but you want to impress upon people that you're really liberal people. So what you do is go into an economically depressed area, buy an old building and modernize it. The building costs you a bunch of money and the modernization costs a lot more money but, what the heck, you can afford it to prove your point. So, comes the day you and hubby move into the refurbished home in ghettoland. As you're moving into the place, all the local hypes, druggies and prostitutes are eyeballing you, your husband and all your possessions. These dopers are actually trying to figure out how much money they can get when they rip off your televisions, computers, antiques, jewelry and so on. It's sort of like when the old pioneers deliberately moved on to or set up homes on land owned by Apache Indians. Needless to say, the Indians did not appreciate being encroached upon by pioneer settlers. Same thing with urban homesteading. Inside of a week your Lexus has been hit, while parked on the street in front of your homestead, 4 different times. The only window that has not been broken is the back window and that has "a life expectancy" of about another hour or so. Three times somebody has tried to steal your purse from you so you've started carrying your money and credit cards in your bra until you get them ripped away from you while they're in the bra. Your husband has been arrested once because when he got of his vehicle to come into the house, two hookers propositioned him, he refused their offers and then got into an argument with them until the cops arrived. The two hookers, 3 local gang members and two pimps all told the cops that your husband propositioned the hookers then tried to rob them so he gets arrested and you get to spend the night in the homestead all alone. The next day you post bond for the husband and then start to re-think your idea about homesteading in the economically depressed area of the inner city. To get out of the area, you take a major loss when you sell your updated, modernized home that was burglarized while you were bonding hubby out of the clink. Don't do it is the best thing I can suggest to you. I've seen that sort of thing done a couple of times and none of them worked out well at all.
ROFL stop telling them not to do it. Its exactly what they deserve! Ahhhh Liberals. Buyers remorse is coming to you... soon!
Old 04-04-2009, 01:38 AM
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Survivalism is a much more extreme variant of Homesteading.

The typical Homesteader isn't learning how to survival in the wild.... using leaves as Toilet Paper, which wild plants have edible roots, using spider webs for wounds, etc.

The typical Homesteader doesn't put so much HEAVY focus on Weapons and Self-Defense.

The typical Homesteader isn't preparing for a post NBC life.... building fall-out shelters, buying gas masks, having a month's worth of bottled water in storage, etc.

Survivalism is the more extreme version of Homesteading. Hope this helps....
Old 04-04-2009, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Littlemiss9419 View Post
I know that they are both similar but are homesteading and survivalism the same? Can someone explain that to me please?
I like to think of homesteading as having your own farm, acreage even some kind of retreat and being self-sufficient thru gardening, farming, raising animals, even being off grid if possible.

Pioneers and homesteaders a hundred plus years ago were survivalists but did not call themselves that.

The term survivalist is claimed to be coined by Kurt Saxon in the early seventies. www.kurtsaxon.com Probably but many survivalists today would not want to be associated with Kurt Saxon who is hard core and extreme probably also racist and an atheist.

Also homesteading is having a home, usually a family and even a community such as Amish are homesteaders. Survivalism is more of a philosophy and even lifestyle for some. People do not have to have a home to be survivalists such as the homeless most who practice survival every day.

Others may not agree but I think one can say that all homesteaders are survivalists but not all survivalists are homesteaders.

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Old 04-04-2009, 06:04 AM
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Modern homesteading as preached by the likes of Mother Earth News, Backwoods Magazine etc. is primarily living out in the country as opposed to an urban setting...trying to use the least amount of anything without giving up the basic luxuries like electricity and running water and flush toilets...you may work out there or commute like we do...

Survivalist back in the 70s bought the land and set up their enclaves and fortified homes and bomb shelters on it--whether they paid taxes is another matter...

SHTF survivalism would be squatting until somebody bigger, stronger, better armed comes along and either takes it back (it was his) or just takes it...

I've said that homesteading is survivalism without the paranoia!
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Old 04-04-2009, 08:44 AM
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I've said that homesteading is survivalism without the paranoia!
Excellent point.
Old 04-04-2009, 09:11 AM
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The survivalist is preparing for an apocalyptic event where everything as we know it will change or cease to exist. Most of these people think that the need for immediate and aggressive 'defense' outweighs the more basic needs (picture hundreds of folks in the woods outlying the city ... picture individuals with 30-40 pounds of guns and ammo and a granola bar.) Much of this 'prep' is book learning (some will just stick the book in the pack and will worry about the learning when the time comes.)

A homesteader looks for ways to provide for himself and family on a small plot of land and is interested in putting as much space between him and walmart/grocery store as possible. Homesteading is a mindset/lifestyle and can only be done by living that way as a matter of course, over time gaining the skills to be largely self sufficient. If an apocalyptic event happens, the homsteader's life will not change much.
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Old 04-04-2009, 09:23 AM
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Back in the day, homesteading was a straightforward business arrangement designed to help the Gov't develope it's newly acquired territories.It worked well!!!!
Old 04-04-2009, 10:19 AM
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I guess everyone's definition is different of course, and perhaps there's no 'official' definition one could offer. But to me, the significant difference between homesteading and survivalism is that the first is a deliberate lifestyle choice designed to greatly reduce your dependency on anyone else, whereas the latter is being prepared to live completely without outside assistance at all for a set period of time (some might ready themselves for one month, others for 5 years, etc).

For example, the average person living in a city is usually very close to 100 percent dependant on others. Food, clothes, medicine, transport, housing etc all can only be provided by someone else, usually for a fee. The 'non necessities' usually come from another source as well, tv's, movies, etc.

Some city folk hunt and/or have small gardens and skills, or use wood burning heating and cut their own wood, etc, and maybe they reduce that dependency to something like 85-90 percent. But obviously still heavily dependent.

A homesteader might seek to reduce that dependency to something like 15 - 20 percent. They provide the majority of their own food, are able to build their own homes with 80 - 90 percent materials they harvest and require only some from outside sources, they provide their own heat and perhaps even a portion of their own medicinal needs, etc. They still have to deal with others for some things... tools, ammo for hunting, etc,... but they have reduced that dependancy to a fraction of what most of us have in a day to day life.

And they do it because they want to - they'd rather enjoy a healthy simple lifestyle closer to nature than live dependent on others in a consumer fast-food driven environment working in an office all day.

A survivalist is attempting to be 100 percent independent IF REQUIRED... in other words they don't necessarily choose to live life that way, they live that way if necessary because they choose life.

These are people who are aware that there may come a time when for some reason they may no longer have any access to the products or services of others for an extended period of time. They choose to prepare against that event for whatever length of time they believe may wind up being necessary. For some - that may be the few months necessary to ride out a short term interruption like the ice storms we saw here in canada a few years back - no heat no stores no power no food and a freezing cold environment for a few weeks. Or perhaps some choose to prepare for longer, several months perhaps to deal with something like Katrina, or the tsunami victims etc. Some choose to prepare for years, in the event something even more horrible happens and it could be a long long long time before there's any access to 'other' people's services or products.

But - that's not how they CHOOSE to live. it's not a life choice, it's insurance.

Homesteaders, by the very fact they are less dependant on others, are obviously less impacted by a sudden event that cuts them off from all support. And they are natural short term survivalists because chances are they can go a fair while without having any need of outside supplies, and tend to be already removed from major urban centers. But unless they are also survivalists they may not be FULLY prepared to go without outside goods for EXTENDED periods of time. Obviously for them however it would be a lot easier to prepare to do so - they're most of the way there.

You can be a homesteader without being a survivalist (proennoke comes to mind as an example). But it's easier to be a survivalist if you're already a homesteader, if you choose to go that extra step.
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Old 04-04-2009, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Littlemiss9419 View Post
I know that they are both similar but are homesteading and survivalism the same? Can someone explain that to me please?
I'm trying to look at all my preparation as simpler living. In order to afford supplies we cut down costs by not eating out or buying frivolous things. In going back to basics we've learned a lot about food, and cooking is a lot more interesting to me now.

I started to express my concern early last summer by getting back into camping. It had been years since I had camped, and I though it was a good start. I didn't want to panic the people around me, or have them think I was paranoid and losing it, so I started slow and developed a plan. I'm not saying that'll work for everyone, but it did for us.
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Old 04-04-2009, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Goblin View Post
Back in the day, homesteading was a straightforward business arrangement designed to help the Gov't develope it's newly acquired territories.It worked well!!!!
TOO well, say most native Americans.
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Old 01-19-2010, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtnman Mike
I like to think of homesteading as having your own farm, acreage even some kind of retreat and being self-sufficient thru gardening, farming, raising animals, even being off grid if possible.

... Also homesteading is having a home, usually a family and even a community such as Amish are homesteaders. Survivalism is more of a philosophy and even lifestyle for some. People do not have to have a home to be survivalists such as the homeless most who practice survival every day.

Others may not agree but I think one can say that all homesteaders are survivalists but not all survivalists are homesteaders.
Very good.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxer
... to me, the significant difference between homesteading and survivalism is that the first is a deliberate lifestyle choice designed to greatly reduce your dependency on anyone else, whereas the latter is being prepared to live completely without outside assistance at all for a set period of time (some might ready themselves for one month, others for 5 years, etc).

... A homesteader might seek to reduce that dependency to something like 15 - 20 percent. They provide the majority of their own food, are able to build their own homes with 80 - 90 percent materials they harvest and require only some from outside sources, they provide their own heat and perhaps even a portion of their own medicinal needs, etc. They still have to deal with others for some things... tools, ammo for hunting, etc,... but they have reduced that dependancy to a fraction of what most of us have in a day to day life.

And they do it because they want to - they'd rather enjoy a healthy simple lifestyle closer to nature than live dependent on others in a consumer fast-food driven environment working in an office all day.

... Homesteaders, by the very fact they are less dependant on others, are obviously less impacted by a sudden event that cuts them off from all support. And they are natural short term survivalists because chances are they can go a fair while without having any need of outside supplies, and tend to be already removed from major urban centers. But unless they are also survivalists they may not be FULLY prepared to go without outside goods for EXTENDED periods of time. Obviously for them however it would be a lot easier to prepare to do so - they're most of the way there.

You can be a homesteader without being a survivalist (proennoke comes to mind as an example). But it's easier to be a survivalist if you're already a homesteader, if you choose to go that extra step.
Also very good.

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