Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > Firearms and Other Weapons Forum > Firearms General Discussion > Shotgun Forum
Articles Chat Room Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files



Shotgun Forum Mossberg, Winchester, Remington, Benelli....

Advertise Here
View Poll Results: What you prefear?
12 ga 907 73.92%
16 ga 27 2.20%
20 ga 205 16.71%
Either 78 6.36%
Neither 10 0.81%
Voters: 1227. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-12-2007, 03:14 PM
minnesotagunner's Avatar
minnesotagunner minnesotagunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 72
Thanks: 28
Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts
Default 12 gauge or 20 gauge?



Advertise Here

i know some people like the 12 gauges power but i also happen to know that some prefer the 20 gauge because of the lower recoil.if you were deer hunting or just plain shooting what would you use.i know that this is a personal preferance question but isnt that what forums are for.so 12 or 20?
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to minnesotagunner For This Useful Post:
Old 12-12-2007, 03:22 PM
riverrat's Avatar
riverrat riverrat is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: minnesota
Posts: 2,118
Thanks: 279
Thanked 1,175 Times in 606 Posts
Default

I was raised with 12 ga. I have never even fired a 20.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to riverrat For This Useful Post:
Old 12-12-2007, 03:30 PM
madcritter's Avatar
madcritter madcritter is online now
Here's my safety Sir
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SE Coastal NC
Posts: 14,250
Thanks: 11,767
Thanked 19,070 Times in 6,865 Posts
Default

I'll go 12 gauge, you can get reduced power rounds to 3 1/2 inch magnum turkey rounds and everything in between.
__________________
Ride hard you can rest when you die
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body but rather to skid in broadside thoroughly used up totally worn out and loudly proclaiming man what a ride!
Save The The Montagnard People
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to madcritter For This Useful Post:
Old 12-12-2007, 03:32 PM
rodanvssct rodanvssct is offline
Prepared
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 261
Thanks: 24
Thanked 101 Times in 49 Posts
Default

I would say the differences would be seen more at distance vs. close up. I prefer the 12 to get a little more distance if needed. The 20 does have less recoil. Also, consider the shotgun as some handle recoil better than others. Autoloaders generally kick less so you might get away with 12 ga in that case if you're recoil sensitive or want quicker followup shots.
The Following User Says Thank You to rodanvssct For This Useful Post:
Old 12-12-2007, 03:51 PM
SeiferAlmasy911's Avatar
SeiferAlmasy911 SeiferAlmasy911 is offline
Funky Laughin' Monk
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In a thumb
Age: 22
Posts: 291
Thanks: 3
Thanked 50 Times in 38 Posts
Default

I prefer 12 but 20 is good, too.


Quote:
or want quicker followup shots.
You can actually fire a pump faster, just like you can fire a single action revolver faster than a pistol, though I'd imagine it takes practice to do so.
The Following User Says Thank You to SeiferAlmasy911 For This Useful Post:
Old 12-12-2007, 04:00 PM
Survival Helper's Avatar
Survival Helper Survival Helper is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,509
Thanks: 2,428
Thanked 2,091 Times in 964 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Helpful Post Outstanding Gear Review 
Total Awards: 2
Default

The common misconception with a shotgun is that a 12 has more power than a 20. It in fact does not. So the only real limiting factors are recoil, and amount of shot that each load carries. The 12 gauge has a wider variety of loads, but the 20 gauge has reduced recoil. I would choose both to be honest, they each have uses. Shotguns are dirt cheap and having both is really the guarantee that you will have a meat gitter.

BTW: this should be in the "shotgun" section
__________________
HELP KEEP THIS FORUM GOING http://www.survivalistboards.com/payments.php
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Survival Helper For This Useful Post:
Old 12-12-2007, 04:12 PM
Survival Helper's Avatar
Survival Helper Survival Helper is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,509
Thanks: 2,428
Thanked 2,091 Times in 964 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Helpful Post Outstanding Gear Review 
Total Awards: 2
Default

__________________
HELP KEEP THIS FORUM GOING http://www.survivalistboards.com/payments.php
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Survival Helper For This Useful Post:
Old 12-12-2007, 04:13 PM
madcritter's Avatar
madcritter madcritter is online now
Here's my safety Sir
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SE Coastal NC
Posts: 14,250
Thanks: 11,767
Thanked 19,070 Times in 6,865 Posts
Default

Survival Helper I have to disagree that the 12 does not has more power than the 20.
Just one of many articles:
"The 12- and 20-gauge are the most popular and most widely available shotguns in America. Of the two, the 12-gauge is more powerful and more versatile. You can use it to hunt almost anything, including white-tailed deer, and for all of the recreational shooting sports."
http://mdc.mo.gov/conmag/2002/08/50.htm
__________________
Ride hard you can rest when you die
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body but rather to skid in broadside thoroughly used up totally worn out and loudly proclaiming man what a ride!
Save The The Montagnard People
The Following User Says Thank You to madcritter For This Useful Post:
Old 12-12-2007, 05:02 PM
kenxkillz's Avatar
kenxkillz kenxkillz is offline
In a pile of brass
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Best place on earth
Age: 20
Posts: 3,718
Thanks: 1,738
Thanked 1,551 Times in 824 Posts
Default

if you want a shot gun with low reciol, it depends on the weight from what i understand. if you want quick follow up hots look into a drowning semi auto. if you want power get the 12 ga. put that together and you get a browning 12 ga semi automatic shotgun. i personally love them, but the one i use is old so i dont know about new ones, its my dead grandpa's old bulgarian made browning from around 1910
The Following User Says Thank You to kenxkillz For This Useful Post:
Old 12-12-2007, 05:09 PM
Survival Helper's Avatar
Survival Helper Survival Helper is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,509
Thanks: 2,428
Thanked 2,091 Times in 964 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Helpful Post Outstanding Gear Review 
Total Awards: 2
Default

I think I will stick with ballistic tables and common physics for this one. It is common knowledge that the same weight, propelled at the same speed has the same "power" The only thing that can change that is the laws of physics. Feel free to look around at ballistics and compare them, but for a load of the same weight, shot size, powder dram, etc. they are in all aspects equal. The only real differance in the two loads (assuming all factors equal) is the size of the entry hole and exit hole. I am not saying that there arent different loads available for each, just that for a given load they have the same power.



http://federalcartridge.com/ballistics/Ammo_Search.aspx

http://www.brennekeusa.com/

http://www.winchester.com/products/c...shotshell.aspx

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshell/
__________________
HELP KEEP THIS FORUM GOING http://www.survivalistboards.com/payments.php
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Survival Helper For This Useful Post:
Old 12-12-2007, 05:29 PM
madcritter's Avatar
madcritter madcritter is online now
Here's my safety Sir
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SE Coastal NC
Posts: 14,250
Thanks: 11,767
Thanked 19,070 Times in 6,865 Posts
Default

Checked all them web sites none lead me to any balistic charts on on 12/20 gauge.

Give me a little help here post the same brand and load for both calibers for
Slug and Double 00 buck.
thanks
__________________
Ride hard you can rest when you die
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body but rather to skid in broadside thoroughly used up totally worn out and loudly proclaiming man what a ride!
Save The The Montagnard People
The Following User Says Thank You to madcritter For This Useful Post:
Old 12-12-2007, 05:50 PM
bogdan's Avatar
bogdan bogdan is offline
Wild Wild... East
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Posts: 2,999
Thanks: 713
Thanked 939 Times in 534 Posts
Default

I move this at shotgun section.

Bogdan
__________________
The golden rule of history is those with the weapons make the rules.
The Following User Says Thank You to bogdan For This Useful Post:
Old 12-12-2007, 05:51 PM
Kenno Kenno is offline
I love this forum
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Woods; but not the REAL north woods; not the northwoods that has icebergs
Posts: 1,063
Thanks: 0
Thanked 108 Times in 61 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Informative Post 
Total Awards: 1
Default

I started with a 2 3/4" 20 ga. While fine for small critters and upland birds I found only the magnum rounds worked on pass shooting ducks and close-in turkeys. The standard 20ga loading will not touch a goose that is not within spitting distance, likewise deer. The 12 ga has the overall edge, light trap loads and heavy hunting loads. the 12 ga. guns themselves are a bit heavier, especialy when loaded, but thats
unavoidable. For a do all shotgun, I'd take a 12ga 3" mag pump with screw-in chokes, a fancy recoil pad, and a variety of ammo. I would feel well armed in the Alaskan bush or in the city.
Old 12-12-2007, 06:05 PM
Survival Helper's Avatar
Survival Helper Survival Helper is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,509
Thanks: 2,428
Thanked 2,091 Times in 964 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Helpful Post Outstanding Gear Review 
Total Awards: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by madcritter View Post
Checked all them web sites none lead me to any balistic charts on on 12/20 gauge.

Give me a little help here post the same brand and load for both calibers for
Slug and Double 00 buck.
thanks
They all have on form or another either manufacturer specs or a full out ballistics calculator, but that seems to be the problem, Brenneke is about the only one that makes (that I know of) a 1oz slug for 20g, and I cannot find their powder dram data, so even to compare their same loadings in 12 and 20 is pointless because I wouldnt know if they are the same amount of powder or not, with that said their 20 and 12 are very close regardless of powder, their published accuracy is nearly identical, and they fire the same weight projectile, although obviously not the same diameter. One could easily expect these rounds to perfom nearly identical over a test control (say 25 rounds of each) My money would be on them both totaling the same in testing. I think that an ammunition manufacturer is not going to make a 20 gauge that does the same as 12 because it isnt in their interest to do so, the 12 sells great and has little competition, so they keep it that way. I am also looking at handload data for this comparison as well, and it seems to reiterate what I already know, they are the same under controlled parameters. I would still take a 12 over a 20, because I can shoot the real heavy loads and have more lead on target, but I have no fear of using a 20 against anything that is in my path.
__________________
HELP KEEP THIS FORUM GOING http://www.survivalistboards.com/payments.php
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Survival Helper For This Useful Post:
Old 12-12-2007, 06:15 PM
madcritter's Avatar
madcritter madcritter is online now
Here's my safety Sir
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SE Coastal NC
Posts: 14,250
Thanks: 11,767
Thanked 19,070 Times in 6,865 Posts
Default

The point I was trying to make in my humble way is there is no way the 20 can be as powerful as the 12 they are two different calibers. To reduce one to make it equal to the other is doing no just to the round and it's abiity and is an unfair comparison. I have never seen a military unit in the field or a police department that used any caliber other than 12 gauge, there must be some reasoning there for it.
__________________
Ride hard you can rest when you die
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body but rather to skid in broadside thoroughly used up totally worn out and loudly proclaiming man what a ride!
Save The The Montagnard People

Last edited by madcritter; 12-12-2007 at 06:24 PM..
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to madcritter For This Useful Post:
Old 12-12-2007, 06:16 PM
Beaterar's Avatar
Beaterar Beaterar is offline
Son Of Liberty
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kentucky 15th-103rd
Age: 35
Posts: 1,870
Thanks: 388
Thanked 1,548 Times in 652 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Helpful Post Outstanding Informative Post 
Total Awards: 2
Default

Ammo avalibility dictates 12ga is the best option, most of the good specialty ammo is only avalible in 12ga
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Beaterar For This Useful Post:
Old 12-12-2007, 06:30 PM
Survival Helper's Avatar
Survival Helper Survival Helper is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,509
Thanks: 2,428
Thanked 2,091 Times in 964 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Helpful Post Outstanding Gear Review 
Total Awards: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by madcritter View Post
The point I was trying to make in my humble way is there is no way the 20 can be as powerful as the 12 they are two different calibers. To reduce one to make it eaqual to the other is doing no just to the round and it's abiity and is an unfair comparison. I have never seen a military unit in the field or a police department that used any caliber other than 12 gauge, there must be some reasoning there for it.
http://www.brennekeusa.com/web/text/magnum20.html
Just as powerful, not reducing anything all things equal is the point not reducing one or the other. Like I said all things equal the laws of physics will not change, they are equal regardless of what has you swayed to think different. If both shells have a 1 ounce slug, with the same powder charge, and the same barrel choke combination, they are going to shoot a round with the exact same power level regardless of gauge.. That my friend is just common ballistics and physics. I think it is safe to say the police and military use 12 gauge for availability issues, not for the best weapon available. Like I have said before compare them (or even close comparisons) and they are exactly the same. I understand you may think different but I guarantee that if you research the facts (not articles on 12 VS. 20) and understand physics you will conclude that not only is the comparison so close but that the 20 has the ability for a more lethal long range shot. Its not hard just stop believing what "gunners" say and compare known facts, pretty soon they all have the same power level and the only major advantage to the 12 is a very good factory ammunition availability. (which can be solved easily by reloading the 20) I mean to continue to argue physics is like trying to prove the world flat.
__________________
HELP KEEP THIS FORUM GOING http://www.survivalistboards.com/payments.php
The Following User Says Thank You to Survival Helper For This Useful Post:
Old 12-12-2007, 06:36 PM
paul kersey's Avatar
paul kersey paul kersey is offline
ole punk from podunk
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: mt.sterling kentucky
Posts: 158
Thanks: 77
Thanked 56 Times in 29 Posts
Default

i, myself would give the nod to 12 gauge. i have a model 48 remington in 12 an model 58 in 20 gauge, both are hunting shotguns an i dont hunt any, i could if needed an would take the 12. the 590 i have is a 12 gauge, but its a hd an the gun i carry on the trails in the rhino...pk
The Following User Says Thank You to paul kersey For This Useful Post:
Old 12-13-2007, 06:23 AM
varmintstalkers's Avatar
varmintstalkers varmintstalkers is offline
The Bad guy
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas
Age: 32
Posts: 1,513
Thanks: 154
Thanked 728 Times in 434 Posts
Default

12 guage has more uses in my opinion. availability is enough to make it a good choice in my opinion.
Old 12-13-2007, 07:19 AM
Paulycracker's Avatar
Paulycracker Paulycracker is offline
Crack A Joke, Split A Gut
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ft. Richardson AK/Stone City IA
Age: 30
Posts: 1,744
Thanks: 2,895
Thanked 621 Times in 385 Posts
Awards Showcase
Top Poster 
Total Awards: 1
Default

http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm
http://www.chuckhawks.com/12gauge.htm

I'd say the 12 is a lot more powerful. Anything that weighs more and still has more kick is way, way more powerful. What goes out must come back.

I don't find anything except those darn 3 1/2" turkey loads to be an issue for recoil. 12 is easier to find if traveling (EVERYONE has it). 12 is more versatile too. Anything the 20 can do the 12 can do better.

PS: Comparing apples to apples, one must realize that the 12 can be loaded up further than those Breneke:

http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe...9217***9488***

Last edited by Paulycracker; 12-13-2007 at 07:22 AM.. Reason: added something
The Following User Says Thank You to Paulycracker For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Kevin Felts 2006 - 2012,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net