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Old 03-02-2009, 10:33 PM
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Default Glock 31c 357sig



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I was thinking of getting a couple of these as I read on a blog that they were particularly good defensive handguns. Can any of you let me know what you think of these and if there is anything I should know in particular about them. Thanks...
Old 03-02-2009, 10:41 PM
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357 sig: a 9mm in a necked down 40 cal casing. It sucks. Nothing good comes from putting a necked casing in an automatic pistol. Stay with 40 or 45.
My department went to the Baretta Cougar 357 sig about 4 years before I retired. The day I retired and gave me the gun I gave it to my son. I have seen nothing to impress me with this caliber.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:41 PM
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Get rid of the C...

Comped weapons arn't condusive to night vision, and SUCK when shooting from retention.
Old 03-02-2009, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madcritter View Post
357 sig: a 9mm in a necked down 40 cal casing. It sucks. Nothing good comes from putting a necked casing in an automatic pistol. Stay with 40 or 45.
My department went to the Baretta Cougar 357 sig about 4 years before I retired. The day I retired and gave me the gun I gave it to my son. I have seen nothing to impress me with this caliber.
Bottlenecked rounds = Increased reliability.

(Not that it's needed in a Glock.)

.357 SIG is a good round, but Expensive...
(Not my choice, but a good round)
Old 03-02-2009, 11:03 PM
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I am sorry, I got it wrong, it is not supposed to be a 31c. I read about this gun here and it seemed that he had some very good reasons for using it and good experience with it.
Old 03-02-2009, 11:15 PM
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Arguably 357 sig is one of the best handgun calibers.

Definitely dont get the compensated version, it weakens the barrel and increases flash and noise.
Old 03-02-2009, 11:25 PM
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I'd be more pro .357 SIG, but I reload and the cases don't last very long, and it's expensive.
Old 03-02-2009, 11:34 PM
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Since it's inception, I have always felt that the .357 Sig was a solution in search of a problem. It does nothing that other existing cartridges did just as well. I also found it sort of funny that they put "357" in the name even though it is really a 9mm, trying to ride the legendary reputation of the .357 Magnum.
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Old 03-03-2009, 09:34 AM
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The cartridge was designed (exclusively) around mimicking the 125 grain .357 Mag load, but in auto-loader. Very often the 125 grain is the only ammo to be found.

The compensated models are popular in the shooting sports, IPSC, IPDA, etc. I've watched a guy get 10 shots in 3 seconds, getting about a 3 inch group at 7 yards. Of course that was a tuned race gun.
As expected it puts up a sheet of flame in the dark.

So, if you like it, great !! . Otherwise perhaps something more versatile is in order.
Old 03-03-2009, 10:58 AM
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Problem is with the .357 SIG is its not as popular as the .40 Caliber. With the right load th 40 is at the top of the list on the one shot stop list.

Two other problems are that the original 125gr, .357 magnum was so effective because the bulliets shattered throughout the wound path. The most modren bulliet designes are essentially bonded core and thus there performance against the older designes.

The other part is that allot of the .357 Sig loads from manufacturers have had their performance reduced. The original .357 Magnum, 125gr load did 1450 FPS out of a 4" barrel. Most of the .357 Sig loads, average 1250 FPS. You might as well buy a 9mm. You get the same performance out of a 9mm+P+.

Me I use the original for my main handgun is a .357 Magnum revolver.


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Old 03-03-2009, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifleman336 View Post
Problem is with the .357 SIG is its not as popular as the .40 Caliber. With the right load th 40 is at the top of the list on the one shot stop list.

Two other problems are that the original 125gr, .357 magnum was so effective because the bulliets shattered throughout the wound path. The most modren bulliet designes are essentially bonded core and thus there performance against the older designes.

The other part is that allot of the .357 Sig loads from manufacturers have had their performance reduced. The original .357 Magnum, 125gr load did 1450 FPS out of a 4" barrel. Most of the .357 Sig loads, average 1250 FPS. You might as well buy a 9mm. You get the same performance out of a 9mm+P+.

Me I use the original for my main handgun is a .357 Magnum revolver.


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It seems to me that the .357SIG was almost a resurrection of the 7.62X25 Tokarev. The .357SIG is a little heavier on the bullet, a littler lower on velocity, but the concept is the same. I have shot both many times, and I can say that there is nothing pleasant about firing a high-pressure bottlenecked round out of a pistol. Muzzle flash is redicoulous, concussion, blast and noise are unbearable. And stopping power is on par with .45ACP,+P9mm, and .40S&W. I don't see the point. But apparently others do, the .357sig has an amazing following with LEO's, and Air Marshalls and other FED agenceys.
Old 03-03-2009, 05:18 PM
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Everybody makes great arguements both for and against the 357 Sig. In my opinion it's not that common of a round. In SHTF situation, how likely are you to come across 357 Sig ammo as opposed to 9mm, 45ACP or 38 spl?

What is the mission of the gun? If it fits the mission, fits your hand and ammo availability isn't an issue, have at it.
Old 03-03-2009, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Cannon Fodder View Post
It seems to me that the .357SIG was almost a resurrection of the 7.62X25 Tokarev. The .357SIG is a little heavier on the bullet, a littler lower on velocity, but the concept is the same. I have shot both many times, and I can say that there is nothing pleasant about firing a high-pressure bottlenecked round out of a pistol. Muzzle flash is redicoulous, concussion, blast and noise are unbearable. And stopping power is on par with .45ACP,+P9mm, and .40S&W. I don't see the point. But apparently others do, the .357sig has an amazing following with LEO's, and Air Marshalls and other FED agenceys.
Well thats because the the old salts that are in charge now, remember their revolver days and the "struck by lightning" effect that subjects shot by the 125gr jacket hollow point seem to exhibit, before falling over.

Sig tryed to make a automatic cartridge with the same performance envelope as the revolver cartridge. But I think you hit it one the head when it comes to "why?" did the ammo manufacterers drew back on the pressure was probably over the complaints of recoil and flash. The .357 Magnum is no angle in the flash department, and as far as recoil, one only has to look at the pistols themselves to get the answer why the recoil is more horrendous than they "remember". First no cylinder gap that acted some what as a compensator as it bled of hot gases. Secondly most of the pistols that chamber it are these lightweight plastic wonders that were only a pipe dream 26 years ago, not the 36+ ounce weapons of the era.

But in the end, they might be able to get low flash powders in the ammo, they can fix the bulliet problem, but the recoil can't be helped in a plastic frame weapon.

And you are right if I was a police chief at a department and it was decided to standardise on one weapon and caliber, as much as I love the .357 magnum caliber revolver, I'd see that the choice went to 9MM,.40 S&W or .45ACP. With good ammo their almost neck N' neck the same in performace.

But being the cheif the rank and file would have to use their assigned weapon and I'll carry my .357 Rev.


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Old 03-03-2009, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Fodder View Post
It seems to me that the .357SIG was almost a resurrection of the 7.62X25 Tokarev. The .357SIG is a little heavier on the bullet, a littler lower on velocity, but the concept is the same. I have shot both many times, and I can say that there is nothing pleasant about firing a high-pressure bottlenecked round out of a pistol. Muzzle flash is redicoulous, concussion, blast and noise are unbearable. And stopping power is on par with .45ACP,+P9mm, and .40S&W. I don't see the point. But apparently others do, the .357sig has an amazing following with LEO's, and Air Marshalls and other FED agenceys.
Well thats because the the old salts that are in charge now, remember their revolver days and the "struck by lightning" effect that subjects shot by the 125gr jacket hollow point seem to exhibit, before falling over.

Sig tryed to make a automatic cartridge with the same performance envelope as the revolver cartridge. But I think you hit it one the head when it comes to "why?" did the ammo manufacterers drew back on the pressure was probably over the complaints of recoil and flash. The .357 Magnum is no angle in that department, and as far as recoil, one only has to look at the pistols themselves to get the answer why the recoil is more horrendous than they "remember". One no cylinder gap that acted some what as a compensator and most of the pistols that chamber it a these lightweight plastic wonders that were only a pipe dream 26 years ago.

But in the end, they might be able to get low flash powders in the ammo, they can fix the bulliet problem, but the recoil can't be helped in a plastic frame weapon.

And you your right if I was a police chief at a department and it was decided to standardise on one weapon and caliber, as much as I love the .357 magnum caliber revolver, I'd see that the choice went to 9MM,.40 or .45ACP. With good ammo their almost neck to neck the same in performace. But being the cheif the rank and file would have to use their assigned weapon and I'll carry my .357 Rev.


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Old 03-03-2009, 11:00 PM
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In this test the 357 sigs cavitation was close to, if not bigger than the 230gr .45 acp.

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Old 03-04-2009, 01:31 PM
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In this test the 357 sigs cavitation was close to, if not bigger than the 230gr .45 acp.

Actually your talking about wound cavity not cavitation. With the older Semi Jacketed Hollow points that fragmented on impact after doing an honest 1450 FPS. The wound cavity would be even bigger. Now I have a a magizine artical picture of such ammo but I can't find a picture on the net. Their are the ones with the Gold Dots, Remington Golden Saber and Winchester SXT's ect., all of which go for maximum weight retention and thus don't have the same performance, that and they don't have the same velocity that the revolver did. They seem to throttle them back velocity wise to that of a 9mm +P+.

So if I could only find a photo on the web to compare one could see the dramatic differance.

One thing that is nice about the new 125gr. Hollow Points for the .357 Magnum is even though I now they would be "OK" for Self Defense, they make great hunting rounds out of a carbine.
Old 03-04-2009, 01:46 PM
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[quote=Bennayboi;537496]
Quote:
In this test the 357 sigs cavitation was close to, if not bigger than the 230gr .45 acp.
That's true, but at those velocity numbers, that cavity you're seeing in the ballistics gel would have little or no effect to a living target. Tissue just stretches and springs back into shape, and the only thing that really matters is the permanent wound cavity, which surprisingly looks about the same for all of those rounds. The only exception to this is a hard organ, like the liver. Or a full stomach. Or a full bladder. Those tend to get effected by a temporary stretch cavity.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:05 PM
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[quote=Cannon Fodder;538466]
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The only exception to this is a hard organ, like the liver. Or a full stomach. Or a full bladder. Those tend to get effected by a temporary stretch cavity.
Or a heart shot at closer range. Their are several cases where they have be torn in two from the hydraulic shockwave as it passes through the ventral chambers. No coming back from that one!!! That and because of the secondary "missiles" radiate throughout the wound path also perferate tissue, blood vessels or orgains all over the place.



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