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Old 02-13-2009, 11:45 AM
Micah525 Micah525 is offline
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Default Fortifications - defensive military works



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fortifications -
“the art or science of constructing defensive military works”

When the bullets start flying are you going to be able to take cover? Or is the first zombie with an AK going to shred your house/condo/apartment like swiss cheese? and kill you & your family in the process?

Don’t fall for the Hollywood illusion that you can dive behind a wall made of sheetrock, isulation & siding for protection. Drive by shootings kill people because bullets go all the way through modern homes.

I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not ready. At this point I only have a couple places with decent cover in our house. The built in planters in my sunroom are brick on two sides with 18 inches of dirt in the middle & I will be behind two rows of these planters in our great room. This is where we will be sleeping... but

The problem with this position is that my field of view is very limited so I’ve developed plans of building a fortification on our front wrap around porch. If done properly I will be able to protect our two main entry points. And have a clear shot of anyone approaching from the road. (the rear of our house is a whole different situation)

I’m going with two rows of 8-10 inch hickory logs filled with a foot of rocks & red clay pounded in between these rows. Also going to put in three additional posts to hold up the roof as the railing that is currently there will collapse pretty easy if we come under any heavy fire.

What have you done or are you planning on doing in this area when the spinning blades start flinging the smelly stuff all over the place?

I’m willing to change my plans if I come across better ideas.
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Old 02-13-2009, 01:54 PM
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Check this site out.

The audio was bad for me but you get the idea.

There was also a ballistics penetration chart in Bruce Claytons book "Life after Doomsday"

I was shocked at some of the data in that book.

I think you may need more thickness to your defenses.

I'll look it up and post chart come next week if interested.



http://www.greatamericans.com/videos...-leathernecker
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:45 PM
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Myth dBusters did a segment on cutting down a tree with bullets, very interesting how much it takes. when my brother was much younger he forgot to clear the chamber when cleaning a High Standard .22 the bullet went through two walls and ended up in the bathtub, that was just a .22
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:19 PM
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Here is a link for building sand bag walls. The original concept on this link is for flooding,
But with some variation sandbag walls can provide good protection from small arms fire.

http://www.midbeds.gov.uk/Images/115..._tcm5-6644.pdf
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:44 PM
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find and read the FM titled"Survivability".
Old 02-13-2009, 04:52 PM
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Here is a good link to an unclassified military training vid showing the effect of penetration of different calibers on different materials, good info, mil approved.


edit> sorry just realized it was the same vid as above, when I read the post I thought of this vid.

Last edited by Ghost Dog; 02-13-2009 at 04:57 PM.. Reason: correction
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:55 PM
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Makin yer house bullet proof is an expensive proposition.
you are right to concentrate on whatever fighting positions you will use. a wooden dirt filled planter around front will give good protection - but - it is an exposed position.
planters on outside of the windows you will use in defense of entrances will be easier, and quicker to man, as you will probably not be waiting outside for an assault, but inside when danger knocks.
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Old 02-13-2009, 05:02 PM
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I'll post something more comprehensive later regarding improvised cover techniques using common materials that do not seem out of place.

For now take a look at this after action report. They cover penetration or lack there of, through common walls in Afghanistan. This is a USMC report regarding Afgan ambush tactics but also covers defensive positions.

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/ima...untain.ppt#298
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Old 02-14-2009, 02:12 AM
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Quite a bit in the NBC Survival section on fortifications especially bunkers etc. Maybe check out the "photos of my underground shelter" thread and fallout shelter threads etc.
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Old 02-14-2009, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micah525 View Post
fortifications -
ďthe art or science of constructing defensive military worksĒ

When the bullets start flying are you going to be able to take cover? Or is the first zombie with an AK going to shred your house/condo/apartment like swiss cheese? and kill you & your family in the process?

Donít fall for the Hollywood illusion that you can dive behind a wall made of sheetrock, isulation & siding for protection. Drive by shootings kill people because bullets go all the way through modern homes.

Iíll be the first to admit that Iím not ready. At this point I only have a couple places with decent cover in our house. The built in planters in my sunroom are brick on two sides with 18 inches of dirt in the middle & I will be behind two rows of these planters in our great room. This is where we will be sleeping... but

The problem with this position is that my field of view is very limited so Iíve developed plans of building a fortification on our front wrap around porch. If done properly I will be able to protect our two main entry points. And have a clear shot of anyone approaching from the road. (the rear of our house is a whole different situation)

Iím going with two rows of 8-10 inch hickory logs filled with a foot of rocks & red clay pounded in between these rows. Also going to put in three additional posts to hold up the roof as the railing that is currently there will collapse pretty easy if we come under any heavy fire.

What have you done or are you planning on doing in this area when the spinning blades start flinging the smelly stuff all over the place?

Iím willing to change my plans if I come across better ideas.
That's all well and good but what IF someone throws a Molotev Cocktail on your roof to get your home to burn down ??? Is your roof tin to help prevent a fire ? Just thinking of all scenarios..
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Old 02-14-2009, 02:20 AM
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plater boxes are always good, but loose gravel and sand are often far more effecive than resisting small arms fire than anything else, especcially hardpacked stuff (strange but true)
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Old 02-14-2009, 02:24 AM
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"fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man"

I prefer to stay on the move, even in a NBC environment I would rather be in the woods on the move than tied down to a location and just hoping my house is bulletproof, sealed, and stocked.
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Old 02-14-2009, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TayoftheDead View Post
"fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man"

I prefer to stay on the move, even in a NBC environment I would rather be in the woods on the move than tied down to a location and just hoping my house is bulletproof, sealed, and stocked.
you be out on the move, with the millions of othrs tryng the same thing, fixed fortifictions are a good thing.... the unwillingness to see that there are always circumstances that could cause you to abandon them and to plan for that is the stupid thing
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Old 02-14-2009, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TayoftheDead View Post
"fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man"

I prefer to stay on the move, even in a NBC environment I would rather be in the woods on the move than tied down to a location and just hoping my house is bulletproof, sealed, and stocked.
I knew a Green Beret guy who said he was going to have caches of food and then be on the move if TSHTF, collapse, whatever. He could probably do that but most cannot.

In a NBC environment I would not want to be wandering around in nuclear fallout, biological or chemical contamination. There are many books written about all this - Ragnar Benson has two about Survival Retreats

There are some I know who have good BOLocations and some who more than just Hope their house is bulletproof etc. Here is mine >

http://mtnmanmike.angelfire.com/mtnm...ivate-road?i=0
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Old 02-14-2009, 05:14 AM
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really, running around outside in NBC if you dont gotta....

Now, where did I put tha zombie killing shovel? (THIS ISNT A JOKE, ALL OF MY SHOVELS HAVE SHARPENED EDGES !!!)
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Dog View Post
Here is a good link to an unclassified military training video showing the effect of penetration of different calibers on different materials, good info, mil approved
Very sobering video. I had always thought that brick and blocks were better cover than that.

So much for hiding out at home.

I need some ideas now about constructing a safe room.
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:41 AM
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question? how are you going to defend all four corners of your house? unless you have help, a one man stand off is a hopeless cause...if your attackers are smart they will keep you occupied, while they attack from the side or rear.....also you need kill zones and fields of fire to have an effective defensive position...structures(fences,walls,burms) that funnel your attackers, so you can cut them down...your going to need help and spotters to keep the position...good luck
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Old 02-14-2009, 11:54 AM
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I was saying in *my* situation I would rather be on the move than cooped up. I live in slum housing in the middle of a bad part of town. I wouldn't trust my walls to stop a knife, let alone a bullet/car/nuke/chemical attack. At least in the woods I can move and get away from whatever is happening. Gesh.
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Old 02-14-2009, 12:02 PM
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An additional idea. You can fill your walls with gravel. It will stop some bullets and the others it will throw it off of their axis. This will cause a marked reduction in the bullet's energy. So if it doesn't stop it it will definatley slow it down and scrub a lot of power from it.
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Old 02-14-2009, 12:04 PM
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I think your best bet would be to have a basement that is 3/4 or more underground with windows at the top of the foundation walls with sandbags stacked along the inside of the windows to avoid looking to conspicious.

If your house has such a basement, that would be your best bet.
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