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Old 01-26-2009, 07:14 AM
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Default Democracy, how long can it last???



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In history, a Democracy has never lasted more than 200 years. We as Americans have enjoyed democracy for some time now. It looks like it is time to mix things up a bit. This democratic process just is not working in our country anymore, and we need some...... (dare I say it) CHANGE. NO!!!, OBAMMY is not the answer. Re-vamping the government just may be. How long do we go on before our country collapses like Russia? Or, are we already there?

What are your thoughts on this???
Old 01-26-2009, 07:46 AM
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I am not certain that we still have a true democracy. The fact is that our elected officials are making decisions based on the desires of the few, not the many. Though we still get to vote for our elected officials (not that we have been presented with much of a choice for the last 20 years) they seem to be far more self-serving and slaves of the lobbyists and special interest groups instead of serving the majority of the people.

We are not quite to an oligarchy yet, but we are not really a democracy either.
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Old 01-26-2009, 08:02 AM
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things are gonna get real bad before anything gets better. too many people in the gov. and average people in the country have lost track of whats really important. they will sell out there rights for safty and everything they believe in for the things money can buy. in poorer countries people realize how important things are like family values and the rights they hold so dear to there hearts in the U.S. its gonna take something major before most people realize what they have let happen
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Old 01-26-2009, 01:19 PM
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Our impending doom started when we stopped referring to ourselves as a Republic and politicians started tossing around the word Democracy as the new catch phrase. By tolerating our educational system to continue to teach our future generations that we are a Democracy and never mention the difference between a Democracy and Republic is appalling. Kids these days don't even know what a Republic is. How many times over the last 20-40 years have you heard elected officials on tv stating "we are spreading Democracy throughout the world?" Or "we are helping so-and-so country free itself from tyranny to establish a democratic society." But no-one within Govt. corrects this very erroneous idea of spreading Democracy. Its absolutely ridiculous.
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:48 AM
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yeah we are moving closer and closer to what most of europe has become. didnt we leave europe because it sucked in the first place? not the people, i guess, but just their way of living and values. we might as well join the friggin E.U. The left wing is practically pushing us in that direction. what the heck is america becoming? everyone has their flaws i guess.
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Old 01-27-2009, 12:59 PM
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fragdemon makes point of the critical issue at hand. The founding fathers feared a Democracy! They were very clear that they were creating a Republic and a Democracy was to be avoided at all cost. Over time we have forgotten the meaning of these two forms of government and because a Republic has elements of Democracy to it rhetoric mongers have blurred the lines. I saw a video clip on Youtube once that provided a great example to help clarify the difference between the two. In the video it used this example:

It is the late 1800s in the American west and a man enters a bank and robs it. In the process of taking the money he kills somebody. A posse is formed by the townspeople and he is soon apprehended. In a Democracy the posse takes a vote as to what to do and by rule of simple majority(Democracy) the angry citizens choose to hang him on the spot.(Mob Rule) In the Republic the the same posse apprehends the same fugitive, but this time the sheriff(enforcer of structured law) steps in and prevents a lynching, jails the criminal until he is tried and convicted in court. Then he is hung. The difference is small but important. In a Republic there is a set framework of law that maintains a structured environment in a Democracy there is constant change and no stability. It is the Democracy that become the Tyranny.
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:01 PM
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unless the contry as a whole is destroyed, democracy's always collapse into socialism
just as ours is in the process of doing right now, we will be a peoples republic eventually.
IF we are not outright destroyed first.
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fragdemon View Post
Our impending doom started when we stopped referring to ourselves as a Republic and politicians started tossing around the word Democracy as the new catch phrase. By tolerating our educational system to continue to teach our future generations that we are a Democracy and never mention the difference between a Democracy and Republic is appalling. Kids these days don't even know what a Republic is. How many times over the last 20-40 years have you heard elected officials on tv stating "we are spreading Democracy throughout the world?" Or "we are helping so-and-so country free itself from tyranny to establish a democratic society." But no-one within Govt. corrects this very erroneous idea of spreading Democracy. Its absolutely ridiculous.
Read this over and over until you are no longer convinced we were E-V-E-R supposed to be a...'democracy'.
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:09 PM
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Default we may be pasted that by now.

It is really hard to say. From the way people are acting right now they may be willing to give up their freedom for the "comforts" of socialism. The changing face of America also does not tend well for democracy. this is not meant to be a racial statement but, it is a reality that many of the groups that we are bringing into this country bring with them their old ways. They aren't looking for freedom, just a place to make money.

This country was built by folks mainly of Western European background. Our laws and our way of thinking is based on that heritage. Many of the new comers are from a far different background and have a greater interest in building more of what they came from here.

If freedom/democracy fails here, what we get may be far worse. For one thing look for a move to repeal the tenure limits on the presidency.
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:24 PM
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Default Hmmm

All forms of government fail eventually. A wealthy nation like the USA has the same problems as any wealthy nation. The population gets lazy and spoiled. The politicians increasingly become more corrupt and greedy. The big businesses stay afloat using the government's monopoly on violence to crush their competitors and become corrupt and mismanaged. The banks all operate through the central bank which has a monopoly on money so of course that is full of corrupt greed and arrogant mismanagement.

Here we are now unfolding slowly. They will keep it propped up for as long as possible, but they will fail. The government cannot break the laws of economics.

As for democracy it fails because people realize they can vote themselves their neghbors property and take their neighbors freedoms for insane utopian control reasons. After it turns into a big mess an oligarchy takes over to save the population into totalitarianism.
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:39 PM
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The US Republic ended in 1913.

This is the form of government that most people commonly consider "Democracy", the old Republic died when the Fed was shoved down our throats.
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by resolver View Post
The US Republic ended in 1913.

This is the form of government that most people commonly consider "Democracy", the old Republic died when the Fed was shoved down our throats.
President Kennedy almost killed the Fed....he was assassinated before he could sign the legislation. hmmm
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Old 01-27-2009, 04:53 PM
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Democracy, how long can it last???

Not long i pray.

Democracy SUCKS.

Our founding Fathers considered it the worst form of Government .

In a democracy 51 % of the people can tell 49% of the people what to do.

Thats why they Founded a CONSTITUTIONAL republic that is now and has been being shred to Pieces.

In a constitutional republic the rights of the People are guaranteed by the Constitution.

The majority can not tell the minority what to do.
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:57 PM
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Thanks for starting this string ROADKING, the word needs to get out as fast and far as possible. All of your postings above are correct and I'm glad to see so many people aware of what's "really" happening. Our Republic did die in 1913 when the privately owned institution "The Federal Reserve Board" was hatched by a bunch of evil devilish men bent on world dominion. Then in 1933 I believe, our money was taken off the gold standard. Now our dollar is only as strong as the populations belief in it, which is dwindling fast and probably sometime this year, I pray to God I'm wrong, the dollar will collapse, martial law will be declared by Obama, the constitution and our bill of rights will be suspended, gun confiscation will commense, and it will immediately become illegal to stockpile food, etc. Food, or the lack thereof, will be the main tool to control the masses. There are at least 800 FEMA (concentration) camps set up inside the US. They're all empty, with 24/7 armed guards, new barbed wire fencing facing inward to keep people in, not to keep people out. Something's fixin to happen here in the U.S. and it ain't gonna be pretty. 9/11 brought about FEMA, the Patriot Act, (which has nothing to do with being patriotic), and the benevolent "Dept of Homeland Security". All of the above are designed for population control and dissident (patriot) supression. Our forefathers warned us of this and thus thought it prudent to arm the citizens to protect ourselves from our own government if they turned into tyrants...which they did a long time ago. I retired from the U.S. Air Force, Special Ops, after 21 years, then worked for the U.S. State Department overseas in American Embassies, and then worked for the Dept of Veterans Affairs for 7 years. I've retired twice now but have seen the world again and again, been all over it, seen it all. I had a Top Secret SCI clearance for 21 years and a Top Secret for another 5. The tyranny has begun, Obama is involved up to his neck, and I'm stockpiling food, water, ammo, silver, (cause ur gonna need money although the new Amero has been in print for 2 years and we've been paying our biggest debtor, the Chinese, with the Amero) and I plan to take care of my family, my daughter, my grandson, and I refuse to let my guns be confiscated. I'll die in my house before I and my family get dragged to a FEMA camp. You can either carry a gun or carry your chains. It's up to you. Hey ROADKING, suspecting your a Harley Owner. Me too. Another thread in this survivalist site has made an interesting correlation showing that Bikers are more involved in the survivalist movement than non bikers....just an interesting study being done. Not that it means anything, but interesting. Get ready folks, get educated, stock up on supplies because when the run on the stores begin, even your friends and family will become vicious and turn against you for food...then the masses will try to steal it from your house. Be prepared, it's gonna get ugly...the stuff nightmares are made of. So sad our country has come to this.
Old 01-28-2009, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
fragdemon makes point of the critical issue at hand. The founding fathers feared a Democracy! They were very clear that they were creating a Republic and a Democracy was to be avoided at all cost. Over time we have forgotten the meaning of these two forms of government and because a Republic has elements of Democracy to it rhetoric mongers have blurred the lines. I saw a video clip on Youtube once that provided a great example to help clarify the difference between the two. In the video it used this example:

It is the late 1800s in the American west and a man enters a bank and robs it. In the process of taking the money he kills somebody. A posse is formed by the townspeople and he is soon apprehended. In a Democracy the posse takes a vote as to what to do and by rule of simple majority(Democracy) the angry citizens choose to hang him on the spot.(Mob Rule) In the Republic the the same posse apprehends the same fugitive, but this time the sheriff(enforcer of structured law) steps in and prevents a lynching, jails the criminal until he is tried and convicted in court. Then he is hung. The difference is small but important. In a Republic there is a set framework of law that maintains a structured environment in a Democracy there is constant change and no stability. It is the Democracy that become the Tyranny.
Don't confuse the terms of political science like that. It doesn't look good.
Old 01-30-2009, 06:55 PM
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Thanks OILMAN. I think you see the future. I, too, believe that our republic died in 1913; but I also believe 1862 was the beginning of our doom. Lincoln put the feds above the states; and then early in the last century, the 15th ammendment finished moving the states out of the republican process by having the senate elected rather than appointed by state legislators.

My 2 cents.
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Old 01-30-2009, 07:09 PM
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I"ll take what we currently have, over some other POS country... period. It's not perfect! However, it is all I have and I will fight to the death to Preserve what little freedom I have left. Love it or leave it.
Old 01-30-2009, 11:36 PM
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We are not a democracy. Technically, we're a Constitutional Republic with a "democratic tradition": https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../geos/us.htmlc. In a nutshell, we're a necocracy (government by the dead FF's). The crux of our troubles is that we think we're a democracy, but have a highly non-democratic economic system under the hood. We're basically an empire fooling itself that it is a constitutional republic fooling itself that it is a democracy.
Old 01-30-2009, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMM123 View Post
President Kennedy almost killed the Fed....he was assassinated before he could sign the legislation. hmmm
He did sign it. That's why he caught a lead infusion.

http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/executiveorder11110.htm
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramchek View Post
We are not a democracy. Technically, we're a Constitutional Republic with a "democratic tradition": https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../geos/us.htmlc. In a nutshell, we're a necocracy (government by the dead FF's). The crux of our troubles is that we think we're a democracy, but have a highly non-democratic economic system under the hood. We're basically an empire fooling itself that it is a constitutional republic fooling itself that it is a democracy.
You don't like it? There are International Borders to the North and South.
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