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Old 01-04-2009, 10:46 AM
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Is full metal jacket a good self defence bullet?Or would going with a hollow point of some kind be better?And what's the difference with trucated cones?The only thing I can find online is that they feed better in autos.And don't foul the barrel as bad.But are they just training type ammo or can they be used for self defence.I found a decent deal on Fiocchi 142 gr 357 FMJTC.I've shot these in my revolver before and they group good.But I'm not trying to stock up on target ammo.Thanks Tradrick
Old 01-04-2009, 12:24 PM
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There are most often much better rounds for self defense on soft flesh targets than FMJ. A expanding round such as a Hollow Point will prove better more times than not IF it will cycle through your gun reliably. This can sometimes be an issue on Auto Loaders, but I have never herd of a problem from a Revolver. If memory serves me correct the FMJTC is nothing more than a FMJ projectil with a small flat nose shape to the tip. This allows the ammo to feed reliably still but the flat nose creates more of a wound channel and tissue damage than a round nose shaped slug would.
Old 01-04-2009, 12:37 PM
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Hollow Points work better for defense use. Full Metal Jacket is usually target ammo. Defense Ammo costs alot more. Our Military uses Full Metal Jacket ammo only. I personaly have a small supply of defense ammo (150 rnds) and a much larger supply of FMJ mostly because of cost. I can stock pile more. I would just look to make sure the velocity is good as some target rounds are loaded "light" to help manage recoil. This will effect the rounds knock down power.
Old 01-04-2009, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tradrick View Post
Is full metal jacket a good self defence bullet?Or would going with a hollow point of some kind be better?And what's the difference with trucated cones?The only thing I can find online is that they feed better in autos.And don't foul the barrel as bad.But are they just training type ammo or can they be used for self defence.I found a decent deal on Fiocchi 142 gr 357 FMJTC.I've shot these in my revolver before and they group good.But I'm not trying to stock up on target ammo.Thanks Tradrick
FMJ is generally not considered the best choice for self defense in calibers of 9mm and above. Quality jacketed hollowpoints get the nod, hands down.

Main reasons that FMJ penetrate deeper, but do not expand to speak of. This results in a smaller wound channel AND the distinct possibility of the bullet passing through the target and causing collateral damage/injury/death. Many states don't allow FMJ rounds for deer hunting, for example, which should tell you something.

Many people, and I agree, DO recommend FMJ for defense rounds in smaller calibers: .380, .32, .25, as they simply don't have enough penetration in hollow point varieties, causing larger but shallower damage. This is a case where penetration is necessary above other concerns, and also a reason that anything under 9mm is not necessarily an optimum choice for self defense either.

Obviously, since this is a "survivalist" forum, in some all out SHTF situation, if you were holding out against beau coup attackers (or the inevitable zombies ), FMJ would be fine, but note that the cheapest FMJ rounds often used for practice are generally not loaded as hot as other standard rounds.

But for now, a quality hollowpoint in .357 mag should be in that chamber for every day carry, if that's what you do. I use Remington Golden Saber .357 and 9 mm, but there are plenty of quality rounds from Federal, Hornady, and others.

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Old 01-04-2009, 12:40 PM
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Hollow points are the way to go for self defense. If you try one type and you are having feeding problems then try another one. Not all firearms like all bullets.
Old 01-04-2009, 12:44 PM
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Hollow points are the way to go for self defense. If you try one type and you are having feeding problems then try another one. Not all firearms like all bullets.
He's using a wheel gun, unlikely to have probs with most any round.
Although I've had probs with aluminum cased rounds expanding in the cylinder more, making them somewhat more difficult to extract.

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Old 01-04-2009, 12:59 PM
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Thanks for the replys guys.I must of had a brain fart or something.I new better.Everyone knows hollow points are better for self defence.I had just ordered 2 speed loaders and 200 rds of Fiocchi 142gr 357 FMJT.As I said before I have shot these in my revolver before with excellant results.But from a self defence standpoint do you think I should cancel/change my order?Or just keep'em.I also have a box of 158 gr SJHP.Those are the ones I keep in the gun at all times.I also have a box of 38 spl.130 gr MC.Looks like I'm getting a much needed education in bullet seletion.Thanks Tradrick
Old 01-04-2009, 02:48 PM
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Might as well keep the ammo you ordered, you will use it eventually at the range if nothing else. At any rate, its a start in building up a stash. As for the SJHP (this would apply slightly more so to JSP ammo too), its better than the 142 FMJTC ammo but its a bit heavy still and wont expand as well in a human for the most part. In a 357, one of the best rounds for one shot stops (where a defensive shooting occured and a torso hit was made...) the 125 Remington HP has one of the better track records compared to any pistol caliber.
Old 01-05-2009, 04:26 PM
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FMJ, or FMJTC can be used for self defense. It will not have isuues with under-penetrating as even the hallowed sjhp125gr .357 mag has had a few (high profile) issues with. With a handgun round, you are relying almost entirely on the bullet's ability to penetrate deep enough to reach major blood vessels and blood bearing organs, or spinal/nervous tissue. You can accomplish this with a bullet that's light, only if it's pushed really fast. Like the 9mm+p+ loads, or .357 mag. If an expanding bullet will still penetrate 12 in or more, that's a bonus. If an expanding bullet in a given caliber will not consistently penetrate 12 in or more, use FMJ. With something heavy, like a .45ACP it does not have to move as fast to penetrate well. I feel totally confident carrying 230gr FMJ in my 1911 for self defense. I also feel confident carrying JHP's as well, as long as they're 230 gr. That way, even if they don't expand, they still leave a bad guy with a nearly 1/2 inch hole through him. That's why I've never understood the 165gr loads for the .45ACP. You've totally ruined the only redeeming grace the round has, it's heavy bullet. The bottom line is this-people don't react the same to getting hit with a handgun round as they do with a rifle. I have seen people get shot with 9mm FMJ and drop like a rock, but I have also seen them not react at all, even to a fatal hit. I think it's all psycological really. People know it when they've been hit center of mass. They don't like it. And usually they don't want to fight you anymore, they want to have someone help them. A good hit with a FMJ or TC bullet center of mass is going to create a bad wound, one that will likely require medical attention in order to survive, if it doesent kill outright. It may or may not stop the fight as quick as a good JHP, but I firmly believe a lot of that has to do with the mindset of the attacker.
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Old 01-05-2009, 04:44 PM
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So here we go again with the debate of hollow point vs FMJ... The idea is that the hollowpoint should open up when it strikes soft flesh, making a larger wound channel. But you have to be sure the round will penetrate deep enough to reach vital organs AND have the energy to break bones to get there, should the need arise. Whether or not that works for your gun depends on the gun and the specifics of the ammo. To make a blanket statement that a .357Mag should always have hollowpoints is simplistic. A light HP round from a short barrelled revolver may not be able to penetrate a shoulder or upper arm and then a rib and still make it to the heart/lungs.

Personally I carry FMJ in my .45acp to be sure I get the penetration I might need.

Allan
Old 01-05-2009, 04:58 PM
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I only have 2 things to say on this topic.
1.Placement is King.
2.Penetration is Queen.
If you don't have the ability to place your rounds where they need to go,neither Hollow Point or FMJ will do their job.
Just my thoughts
Old 01-05-2009, 05:07 PM
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the .45 auto with FMJ will work for self defense!
Old 01-05-2009, 05:10 PM
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Thanks for the responces.I agree with placement of the shot which is why I originally whent with the 142 gr FMJ.Because they shoot and group very well in this gun.I've got a decent mixture of both and will probably be buying more.So I should be covered either way.Thanks Tradrick
Old 01-05-2009, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdman View Post
So here we go again with the debate of hollow point vs FMJ... The idea is that the hollowpoint should open up when it strikes soft flesh, making a larger wound channel. But you have to be sure the round will penetrate deep enough to reach vital organs AND have the energy to break bones to get there, should the need arise. Whether or not that works for your gun depends on the gun and the specifics of the ammo. To make a blanket statement that a .357Mag should always have hollowpoints is simplistic. A light HP round from a short barrelled revolver may not be able to penetrate a shoulder or upper arm and then a rib and still make it to the heart/lungs.

Personally I carry FMJ in my .45acp to be sure I get the penetration I might need.

Allan
Same here, and some people think that's like sacrilige or something. The 230gr FMJ .45 is a proven fightstopper, and like you said I just don't trust a hollowpoint to penetrate deep enough if it has to break bones to get there.
Old 01-05-2009, 07:39 PM
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Hollow points or FMJ...it's a matter of preference. I Prefer a bullet that will penetrate deeper into the body. I use only 158 gr Jacketed soft points (JSP) for my 357mag, and 230 gr FMJ FP (flat point, which is the truncated cone) in my 45ACP, (which supposedly will not glance off bone where the round nose can).

Last edited by Sam43; 01-05-2009 at 07:49 PM..
Old 01-05-2009, 07:54 PM
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45ACP truncated cone bullet (Hornady 230gr. FMJ FP)
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