Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > Firearms and Other Weapons Forum > Firearms General Discussion > Rifle Forum
Articles Chat Room Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files



Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-28-2008, 04:22 PM
Woody Creature's Avatar
Woody Creature Woody Creature is offline
I feel good.... . . .
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The greatest country on Earth
Posts: 488
Thanks: 159
Thanked 427 Times in 210 Posts
Default 9mm AR-15



Advertise Here

I am curious about your thoughts and ideas on the 9mm AR-15. Specifically its practicality in SHTF situations and other survival situations.
Old 12-28-2008, 04:26 PM
PAGUY's Avatar
PAGUY PAGUY is offline
Go to guy
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 661
Thanks: 21
Thanked 229 Times in 141 Posts
Default

I would rater be missed by a 5.56 then hit by a 9mm. I guess that if that was all that you had and you had skills with it then OK but I would not make it my choice weapon. The largest downfall in my opinion is range with stopping power close behind that.
Old 12-28-2008, 04:43 PM
Kalifornia Guy's Avatar
Kalifornia Guy Kalifornia Guy is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kalifornia
Posts: 2,404
Thanks: 2,225
Thanked 2,277 Times in 1,095 Posts
Default

One question WHY? If your going to have a AR then you should have it in 5,56 or 6.8 etc; If you want a 9mm you can always have a hand gun as a back up for the same cost as a upper. If it was in the MP5/UZI form for close quarters then yes it would serve well.
Old 12-28-2008, 04:47 PM
Cannon Fodder's Avatar
Cannon Fodder Cannon Fodder is offline
Sugar-free
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,184
Thanks: 2,174
Thanked 5,934 Times in 2,312 Posts
Default

I don't understand the concept of pistol-caliber AR's. That totally negates the reason you're carrying a rifle in the first place. They are so pricey, you could have essentially the same thing with a hi-point carbine. For much less cash.
The Following User Says Thank You to Cannon Fodder For This Useful Post:
Old 12-28-2008, 07:19 PM
Mabu Khan's Avatar
Mabu Khan Mabu Khan is offline
Slayer of Sacred Cows
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Outside Your City Walls
Posts: 580
Thanks: 285
Thanked 288 Times in 184 Posts
Default

The one thing you gain is a quiter rifle if you have some subsonic rounds on hand.

While not equal to a silenced 9mm carbine a 16"+ barrel Hi Point, Uzi Carbine or AR Carbine in 9mm will be fairly quite you if used with 147gr subsonics that are properly handloaded for it.

I played with loads like that when I had a UZI Model B Carbine using the Hornadly 147gr XTP and AA #5 powder.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mabu Khan For This Useful Post:
Old 12-28-2008, 08:49 PM
Smith Smith is offline
Target Shooter
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Central Oklahoma
Age: 36
Posts: 437
Thanks: 38
Thanked 182 Times in 116 Posts
Default

Get a long barrel 5.56 and a short barrel 9mm upper for your serial'd lower:



In the house; open up with the 9, outside, 5.56.
Old 12-28-2008, 09:27 PM
Cannon Fodder's Avatar
Cannon Fodder Cannon Fodder is offline
Sugar-free
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,184
Thanks: 2,174
Thanked 5,934 Times in 2,312 Posts
Default

For home defense, I can see how the 9mm AR would be formidable. Still not an advantage over a 9mm pistol though because it's extra capacity advantage is offset by it's size and weight.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cannon Fodder For This Useful Post:
Old 12-28-2008, 09:58 PM
Primal Spartan Primal Spartan is offline
Survivalist
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 53
Thanks: 6
Thanked 30 Times in 16 Posts
Default

I'm going to have to do some research on this but a company was making copy MP5's in .22 and i've seen them i just cannot remember who it was. The MP5 is the ultimate CQB weapon in 9MM and was mainly available with i believe a class 3 firearms license for $3000 to $6000. However i've heard from my local gun dealer that in the next few months this company making the copy version in .22 is about ready to start producing them in 9MM semi auto and a price of about 750.00+ which is a good deal if you want a 9MM rifle. I found it online it is the GSG5 if anyone was curious.
Old 12-28-2008, 10:08 PM
Smith Smith is offline
Target Shooter
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Central Oklahoma
Age: 36
Posts: 437
Thanks: 38
Thanked 182 Times in 116 Posts
Default

GSG-5

http://www.americantactical.us/

It's around ~$500.

http://www.google.com/products?&rlz=...=1&sa=N&tab=wf
The Following User Says Thank You to Smith For This Useful Post:
Old 12-28-2008, 10:11 PM
Woody Creature's Avatar
Woody Creature Woody Creature is offline
I feel good.... . . .
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The greatest country on Earth
Posts: 488
Thanks: 159
Thanked 427 Times in 210 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primal Spartan View Post
I'm going to have to do some research on this but a company was making copy MP5's in .22 and i've seen them i just cannot remember who it was. The MP5 is the ultimate CQB weapon in 9MM and was mainly available with i believe a class 3 firearms license for $3000 to $6000. However i've heard from my local gun dealer that in the next few months this company making the copy version in .22 is about ready to start producing them in 9MM semi auto and a price of about 750.00+ which is a good deal if you want a 9MM rifle. I found it online it is the GSG5 if anyone was curious.
MP5..... I think more like $35,000 But a .22 semi version sounds like some fun!
Old 12-28-2008, 10:29 PM
Woody Creature's Avatar
Woody Creature Woody Creature is offline
I feel good.... . . .
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The greatest country on Earth
Posts: 488
Thanks: 159
Thanked 427 Times in 210 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalifornia Guy View Post
One question WHY? If your going to have a AR then you should have it in 5,56 or 6.8 etc; If you want a 9mm you can always have a hand gun as a back up for the same cost as a upper. If it was in the MP5/UZI form for close quarters then yes it would serve well.
Why, I guess that I am trying to keep the diversity of ammunition for the weapons I have to under 6 or so. I have both 5.56 M4 and 9mm pistol and have built a CMMG lower for 9mm with the removable magwell block as to not limit the modularity of this AR platform in the future. Just waiting on a few things before I get the upper.

If SHTF would it be a reasonable argument to say the 6.8 and even 5.56 would be harder to come by than 9mm?
Old 12-28-2008, 10:34 PM
whirlibird whirlibird is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SW Wyoming
Posts: 4,649
Thanks: 971
Thanked 4,992 Times in 2,410 Posts
Default

The 9mm in a carbine is more effective than from a handgun but is more over-penetrative than the .223 in the same mediums.
Read that it will go through more walls and scumbag than a .223 bullet.

As a "meat" weapon in short range use it's not bad but limited in power for the big critters.
It's much easier on unprotected ears than most other longgun choices, except the .45 auto. Especially when the 147gr Subsonic rounds are used. These would also be the best choice for critter use.

The modified UZI mags that are normally used have two severe drawbacks, they spew their ammo if you drop them loaded and their price.
Although I've heard good things about the CP Magazines that are out now.

If I had a newbie I had to arm with something that had NO recoil and was easy on the ears, I'd give it serious consideration especially if they were resigned to carrying a 9mm handgun as a companion piece.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to whirlibird For This Useful Post:
Old 12-28-2008, 10:44 PM
Smith Smith is offline
Target Shooter
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Central Oklahoma
Age: 36
Posts: 437
Thanks: 38
Thanked 182 Times in 116 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody Creature View Post
If SHTF would it be a reasonable argument to say the 6.8 and even 5.56 would be harder to come by than 9mm?
9mm will be every where because the pistols are cheap, plentiful, and ubiquitous. Not everyone spent ~$1,000 on an AR.

With that said though; I have a pile of 9mm pistols and only one AR. But I have more ammo for the AR....

Still though; all the people/houses with one 9mm pistol(and ammo) is going to be a lot. I'd still count on(but not rely on) 9mm being more common.

Any number amount regarding ammo seems like a lot or plenty at first.

First I thought "100 rounds should be good". Then it didn't seem like so much. 500 should be enough.. Doesn't seem like it. 1,000 is easy enough to get.. But will it be "enough"? As money starts to seem like it's going to not be worth anything in the future, I see my ammo count going way up....

The situation is NOT looking good:

http://www.kitco.com/ind/Wiegand/dec222008.html
Old 12-28-2008, 10:58 PM
Kalifornia Guy's Avatar
Kalifornia Guy Kalifornia Guy is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kalifornia
Posts: 2,404
Thanks: 2,225
Thanked 2,277 Times in 1,095 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody Creature View Post
Why, I guess that I am trying to keep the diversity of ammunition for the weapons I have to under 6 or so. I have both 5.56 M4 and 9mm pistol and have built a CMMG lower for 9mm with the removable magwell block as to not limit the modularity of this AR platform in the future. Just waiting on a few things before I get the upper.

If SHTF would it be a reasonable argument to say the 6.8 and even 5.56 would be harder to come by than 9mm?
Makes sense, It would make a good short range weapon in a SHTF situation. Once you get it together give us an update on it. If you need a source for mags these guys are decent http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CP9
The Following User Says Thank You to Kalifornia Guy For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2008, 12:46 AM
Herd Sniper Herd Sniper is offline
American fearmaker
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,565
Thanks: 11,626
Thanked 20,017 Times in 6,804 Posts
Default

9 mm carbines are good only out to about 100 to maybe 200 meters in the majority of cases. I would rather go with an honest rifle caliber for overall use and leave the pistol caliber carbines completely out of my arsenal. There might come a time when I might need the extra distance a rifle caliber offers me or even the more powerful punch that a pistol caliber firearm would deny me.
Old 12-29-2008, 02:20 AM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is online now
Recent Blog:
Survivor
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Gulf coast and/or Nomadically
Posts: 8,292
Thanks: 3,231
Thanked 11,850 Times in 4,266 Posts
Default

If your gonna carry a rifle...


Carry a rifle.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Nomad, 2nd For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2008, 02:21 PM
Jester73's Avatar
Jester73 Jester73 is offline
ahhh life, blah blah blah
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: South Georgia
Age: 41
Posts: 160
Thanks: 53
Thanked 87 Times in 41 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Fodder View Post
I don't understand the concept of pistol-caliber AR's. That totally negates the reason you're carrying a rifle in the first place. They are so pricey, you could have essentially the same thing with a hi-point carbine. For much less cash.
I agree with Cannon Fodder on this one. I used a 9mm colt AR subgun on entry for many years. We quickly learned its limitations. If you are going to carry a long gun, use a long gun caliber. The only reason we used the 9mm is because the powers that be thought a 9mm would penetrate walls less than a 223 and we could fire 3 rounds into a target fast and keep moving. Ain't worth spit at a hundred yards in combat.
The Following User Says Thank You to Jester73 For This Useful Post:
Old 06-26-2009, 10:04 PM
Woody Creature's Avatar
Woody Creature Woody Creature is offline
I feel good.... . . .
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The greatest country on Earth
Posts: 488
Thanks: 159
Thanked 427 Times in 210 Posts
Default

I have completed my 9mm carbine and after only running 500 rounds (with out a hiccup) I am 100% certain that this puppy has its place in a SHTF situation. As stated before in the responses to this thread there are pros and cons to the 9mm in a carbine platform... . .but there are pros and cons to every caliber in any platform. With that being said I would say, If I had to reach behind door number 3 and choose only one long gun.. . .I believe the 9mm carbine would probably be it. Door number 3 choices being: Remington 11-87, Rugar 10/22, Wilson Combat 5.56 and the newly added 9mm carbine.

I built this carbine mostly for fun and somewhat out of boredom and after running her through her paces its hard to deny the shear firepower and potential that it is capable of.. . . 32rd mags/100rd drums... . .cheap ammo compared to 5.56 and 30 calibers... and while only being semi-automatic having the ability to empty a 32rd mag in under 5 seconds can provide some serious suppression all the while having the ability to keep it in the 10 ring at 50 yards.

Now I know you are saying why the 9 over the 5.56? And my answer I guess would be directed towards current living situations. Dense urban. So penetration is an issue (which I guess it relative). With that being said I do believe that in the sticks I would also be capable of taking small to medium game with the 9mm knowing that the 5.56 would be superior. And I guess one more slight advantage is the direct gas blow back of the pistol caliber carbines...very simple and very effective.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Woody Creature For This Useful Post:
Old 06-29-2009, 07:29 AM
JohnP's Avatar
JohnP JohnP is offline
I'd rather be Jeeping...
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Trinity, TX
Posts: 762
Thanks: 668
Thanked 703 Times in 297 Posts
Default

Yep.
Old 06-29-2009, 07:48 AM
knight3218's Avatar
knight3218 knight3218 is offline
L E Firearms Instructor
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Age: 53
Posts: 524
Thanks: 125
Thanked 434 Times in 195 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody Creature View Post
I have completed my 9mm carbine and after only running 500 rounds (with out a hiccup) I am 100% certain that this puppy has its place in a SHTF situation. As stated before in the responses to this thread there are pros and cons to the 9mm in a carbine platform... . .but there are pros and cons to every caliber in any platform. With that being said I would say, If I had to reach behind door number 3 and choose only one long gun.. . .I believe the 9mm carbine would probably be it. Door number 3 choices being: Remington 11-87, Rugar 10/22, Wilson Combat 5.56 and the newly added 9mm carbine.

I built this carbine mostly for fun and somewhat out of boredom and after running her through her paces its hard to deny the shear firepower and potential that it is capable of.. . . 32rd mags/100rd drums... . .cheap ammo compared to 5.56 and 30 calibers... and while only being semi-automatic having the ability to empty a 32rd mag in under 5 seconds can provide some serious suppression all the while having the ability to keep it in the 10 ring at 50 yards.

Now I know you are saying why the 9 over the 5.56? And my answer I guess would be directed towards current living situations. Dense urban. So penetration is an issue (which I guess it relative). With that being said I do believe that in the sticks I would also be capable of taking small to medium game with the 9mm knowing that the 5.56 would be superior. And I guess one more slight advantage is the direct gas blow back of the pistol caliber carbines...very simple and very effective.
If you already have it in the 5.56MM and just feel like having one in 9MM then have at it. That being said, the 5.56MM will defeat body armor while the 9MM won't and mags are more expensive (the one's made by Colt). I have fired the 9MM guns and they are fun to shoot, but I carry the 5.56MM at work.
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Kevin Felts 2006 - 2012,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net