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Old 12-18-2008, 06:14 PM
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Tsar Bomba Tsar Bomba is offline
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Question 5.56 vs 5.45



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Between the 5.56 and the 5.45 which one is better? I know the 5.56 is what the M4 carbines shoot and the 5.45 is what the AK-74 shoots.
Old 12-19-2008, 02:04 AM
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They aren't that different, 5.56 is 55 grain ammo at 3200 ish fps, and the 5.45 is 70 ish grain at around 3000, maybe a bit lower.

Those two...I'd vote 5.56, simply because its way more available.
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:23 AM
1st MAW 1st MAW is offline
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I own both and in FMJ form the 5.45X39 hits harder than the 5.56X 45....I am basing this
on the effects hits had on feral dogs....Using the 5.56, I shot the dog(about 60 lbs) at about 65 yards away, hit behind the should, it turned him around and he started running in the opposite
direction, the second shot hit him in the middle of the shoulder, dropped him and he lay there howling, finished him off with a pistol shot in the head...
With the 5.45, I shot a feral mixed bull,hound at around 50 yards center body about 5inches behind shoulder, he immediately dropped, groaned and died....
Rifles used were an m-16a4 20" bbl with 1x9 twist 55gr bullet FMJ.... 5.45 used was a Polish Ak-74 with standard 60 gr FMJ russian army bullet....
The Afgans caLL THE 5.45x39 The "POISON BULLET"......
Old 12-19-2008, 11:29 AM
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Addendum to first post...

The M16A1, the rifle I was issued in Vietnam had more knockdown power, We were issued the 55gr fmj, the difference was in the twist, which was 1X12 did not stabilize the bullet as does the 1X7 twist which is overstabilized causing a much smaller wound channel.....The M16A1 put "Charlie" down...
I think with the 1X 12 twist barrels the 5.56 would equal the 5.45, which is a very unstable bullet.....thereby causing the horrible wound channels seen in Afganistan....
Old 12-19-2008, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsar Bomba View Post
Between the 5.56 and the 5.45 which one is better? I know the 5.56 is what the M4 carbines shoot and the 5.45 is what the AK-74 shoots.
Grab a copy of the DVD Advanced Kalashnikov Rifle Gunfighting by Infidel Media Group from One Source Tactical; there's a simple first-hand test of the various calibers' penetration vs. concrete block at the end. Plenty of other good information too, even if you shoot something other than an AK. (If you can review a copy of Sonny Puzikas's out-of-print Beyond the Firearm DVD on Kalashnikov rifles, he goes into the specific virtues of the 5.45x39mm round; it has a void in the center of the slug that maximizes its terminal effect.)

http://www.onesourcetactical.com/ind...odID=1586&HS=1

Old 12-19-2008, 01:19 PM
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The 5.45 has an internal cavity which causes it to tumble when hitting flesh, thus making a horrible wound.

Old 01-12-2011, 08:20 AM
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Smile It's not about the size

The 5.45 has a tumbling effect because the rounds is backheavy
The 5.56 has a "holy ****" effect where it fragments and gives a hydrostatic effect where the water............. Drop a coin in a pool and the waves is the water inside of you. That times 100 everywhere
Old 01-12-2011, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ls1 View Post
Those two...I'd vote 5.56, simply because its way more available.

I prefer 5.45 for the exact same reason.

I have enough of this ammo to last me a very long time.

I am not an expert by any means, but I have shot both, and seen what both rounds do to soft targets, and IMO the 5.45 is MARGINALLY better in almost every way.

Accuracy wise I don't really see much difference. For me, the limiting factor is not the ammo or the rifle, but my eyes.

I am about as accurate with a Colt AR15 HBAR with iron sights as I am with an Arsenal SLR-31 with iron sights, at least out to 300 yards or so.
Old 01-12-2011, 04:56 PM
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Barrel length, twist and bullet weight all play a role in accuracy and terminal velocity, target distance is also a factor. IMHO both rounds are really effective rounds becoming familiar with your platform is and should be your number one priority. The yank side of me would pick the 62+ grain 5.56 fmj because I've seen the damage that round can do. Soft or hard target that round does not care.
Old 06-01-2012, 12:22 PM
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Ballistic co-efficiency has a lot to do with it. Does anyone know how the 77gr 5.56 compares in penetration to the 7n6?

I thought about switching over, but in a real SHTF scenario, the last thing you want is corrosive ammo with no ability to really clean it out.

The 7n6 is cheaper, but if you reload, the 5.56 (even in a 62 or 77gr) can be made real cheap.

The 7n6 does tumble, but since it's only back heavy, even a light brush (bush) can cause it to tumble whereas the 5.56 can cut through it a little better.

The problem of the 5.56 not fragmenting at greater distances can be resolved by using ballistic tipped ammo such as Hornady. Again, for the cost, you can reload to bring it down a little.
Old 06-01-2012, 12:44 PM
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Look the big issue with the 5.56 isn't the 5.56 it is putting rounds that are improperly weighted to the wrong barrel. If you look at the wound cavity data below you will see the 5.56 OTM and the correct round in the correct rifle (short NL) are just as devistating as the 5.45. The white line presenting the average shot int the chest and out of the back, and the yellow average shoulder to shoulder.

The biggest defect in the 5.56 is the common consumer of the M4 family can't tell you what round is optimal for there spefic rifle and buy rounds that will shoot through a body and do no damage. This can all be prevented by soft tips etc, or like the 5.45 a very imbalanced, and slight air cavity in the tip of the round will always cause the tumbling effect.

If push came to shove and I was stockpileing ammo, the 5.45 would be the easiest to get, cheapest, and most effective for the money. If I had a M16 family rifle I would do lots of reasearch or stick with soft point style rounds.

Frankly I think the 5.45 is a better round but just by a little. It wouldn't make me go out and buy a rifle for that caliber, but I am for other reasons.



Note again the OTM round is a new round for the US military and the weight isn't why the round is effective but the tip that destablizes it.
Old 06-01-2012, 10:53 PM
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I like the 5.56/.223 since they are simply a great round with little recoil, accurate, and can be found for decent prices locally. Its also known for yaw, tumble and fragmentation on soft targets.

That being said, the 5.45 is such a GREAT tumbler after entering soft targets that its been known to exit at a 90 degree angle. That makes for LOTS of damage. Wish it was as popular in the local market.

IMHO you can't go wrong with either.
Old 06-04-2012, 07:20 PM
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5.45 is one of the greatest ammo bargains going now. It won't replace my 5.56 battery, but I am enjoying the price break.

However, the issue with all the yawing/tumbling/fragmenting/voodoo stuff is that such bullets will be more easily defeated by body armor, or more likely cover like significant trees, brick walls, and the like. That's why I like to have a heavy hitter or three in my battery; .308, 7.62x39, even 6.8. SPC.

Again, the lighter/faster rounds certainly have their place. But cover all the bases.

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Old 06-04-2012, 08:09 PM
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5.56 simple. Here's my reasoning behind it. You can get the m193 which is better at soft targets then the m855 round is, you can also get other way more affective rounds. Also if you get a AR 15 chambered in 5.56 you could get another upper utilizing a .308, 6.8, 6.5 or other rounds. Plus if shtf does happen, you have military also using this round and two of the rounds I stated above. But in the end, Do your research, see what rounds are prevalent in your neck of the woods. And make your choice from there.
Old 06-04-2012, 08:28 PM
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I have been running an AR in 5.45x39 and love it. I get to shoot more for less and it is a wicked round it's self. I had a hard time with magazines but have found out how to modify the windowed P-mags now and they have been 100%. My AR has 7 cases (7560 rounds) of the corrosive ammo through it I just rinse it with water after every range trip and then a regular cleaning. I plan to pick up an AK 74 soon too. Buy the ammo cheap and stack it deep.
Old 06-05-2012, 05:53 AM
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Purely on paper, I say the 5.45x39. However, in all reality I'd go for the 5.56. You can reload for it, it is made in the US, you have tons and tons of options for bullets and loaded ammo.

There is no US made 5.45x39. You only have surplus ammo and hornady v-max ammo. They import wolf cases and fill with their own powder and bullet. I use v-max heads for reloading 7.62x39 and they work great. Nol-one makes a berdan primed case for that round. Besides hornady, I think no-one makes bullet heads for 5.45.

One might be a bit better than the other, but they both perform fine. For close range defense, I prefer an open sighted rifle over a peep sighted one. So, in pure stock form I would rather have a AK than an AR. Open sights are quicker to point. Peep sights make you want to aim the rifle. I mount the gun and point the hood at the target and totally disregard the rear sight. Fractions of a second is all you got. However, I am hooked on a quality red dot sight for defensive purposes. I have a eotech 512 ontop of a 7.62x39 AK Saiga conversion and not have it any other way. However, it is much easier to put a red dot on an AR than an AK-74.
Old 06-05-2012, 06:22 AM
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5.56 has bonded ammo, TSX, SOST, and all sorts of other great choices. With 5.45 your "best" ammunition, I believe, is something that doesn't expand or fragment, and will rust your gun to pieces if you don't clean it immediately after use. It is amazing how many internet commando's will poo-poo the M4 because it must be cleaned every now and then and kept lubed, but yet they somehow think that stopping and using hot-water and dish-washing liquid after every situation in which they fire their weapon (even just 2-3 rounds) using that corrosive 7N6 junk it somehow "no big deal".

Fail.
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSshane69 View Post
5.56 simple. Here's my reasoning behind it. You can get the m193 which is better at soft targets then the m855 round is, you can also get other way more affective rounds. Also if you get a AR 15 chambered in 5.56 you could get another upper utilizing a .308, 6.8, 6.5 or other rounds. Plus if shtf does happen, you have military also using this round and two of the rounds I stated above. But in the end, Do your research, see what rounds are prevalent in your neck of the woods. And make your choice from there.
I want to know where people are seeing these .308 uppers for AR-15s...
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnoldrew View Post
I want to know where people are seeing these .308 uppers for AR-15s...
Me too. Good luck feeding 7.62 NATO/.308 Win through an AR15 mag well...
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:23 PM
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Maybe he was simply identifying a few CALIBERS, not cartridges.

.308 means more than just 308 Winchester.

The 300 blackout / whisper will run through an ar platform, and they shoot .308 caliber bullets.
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