I just bought some. Is it okay to store them on the basement concrete? Or should I put something underneath?
No character assassination attempts here, just hoping for cordial discussion.Plastic is semipermeable and should never go down directly on concrete. Some kind of barrier is necessary.
Remember that concrete is susceptible to hydrostatic pressure which will force compounds up to the surface along with moisture. When it meets the semipermeable plastic it will leech through eventually.
Looking around a bit further, I noted someone asking, if this is true (that concrete leaches chemicals into water), then why are there concrete cisterns? That sounds like a good question to me.Water Storage Myth: Don’t store your water barrels on cement. Water Storage Fact: Actually, there’s always a missing component to this myth. The key is not to store your water barrels on HEATED cement, and even that’s questionable advice. To store your water in your basement on the cement floor is just fine. There’s no need to make your barrels less stable by putting them on 2 x 4s. Cement only leaches chemicals when it gets hot. If you’re going to store your water in your garage, where the sun heats up the connecting driveway cement, then yes, I’d consider raising your barrels up on floor boards or such.
What do you plan to live through long enough for that to happen, dude?When it meets the semipermeable plastic it will leech through eventually.
No worries, screeno. It's just a thing randkl has with me.No character assassination attempts here, just hoping for cordial discussion.
There are some variables involved. Remember that safety advice tends to be in KISS format so folks don't get bogged down in the details. But the fact that you have many kinds of concrete, what ends up being used to finish it or gets spilled on it, and even what the soil underneath is like means there MIGHT BE A CHANCE of transplastic migration. And short of sending an expensive team of experts out to test everything you won't know for sure. Far easier for the experts to tell you to stuff plywood beneath and call it a job done.I have read many instructions, and plenty of forum posts that advocate exactly what you are saying, Zeke... keep the plastic barrel up off the concrete. I have done so myself with all my barrels. However, the further I look into this phenomenon of alleged concrete leaching, the more I question the validity of the concept.
First of all, I see it noted here, on Myths and Facts of Water Storage, where it is stated...
Ah, the cistern thing I can help with. Typical concrete cisterns are lined with either epoxy or special cement finish coatings. You don't use a bare concrete tank as a cistern these days. Yes, it was done in the past that way but now we know better due to lab testing.Looking around a bit further, I noted someone asking, if this is true (that concrete leaches chemicals into water), then why are there concrete cisterns? That sounds like a good question to me.
I have 3/4" plywood between all my water barrels and the concrete floor. What do I know, right?
No, it's not. It's impossible in a lot of cases, a pain in the ass and weeks of work in others.concrete is easily changed
Pure Portland is and always will be the most common method of lining and repairing farm cisterns....and not one coating I've ever seen was designed to protect the water from the concrete. Of course, if you know any and can cite them, I'll be glad to read them. And I don't mean "food grade" that's ok for drinkable water storage....I mean ONE cistern coating designed to protect the water from the concrete.As for cement lining they do far more than just slap portland cement on
The first major user was the Romans and their concrete still exists in many places in salt water today after 2000 years. No modern cement can touch that kind of longevity. Fact is we don't even know precisely how they made it and cannot replicate it today. So obviously concrete can be changed, because there have been changes made so long ago we have forgotten the recipe.No, it's not. It's impossible in a lot of cases, a pain in the ass and weeks of work in others.
I already pointed out a common product that changes concrete for water storage. Silica quartz as aggregate. You can buy it from Kryton in 5 gallon buckets.Pure Portland is and always will be the most common method of lining and repairing farm cisterns....and not one coating I've ever seen was designed to protect the water from the concrete. Of course, if you know any and can cite them, I'll be glad to read them. And I don't mean "food grade" that's ok for drinkable water storage....I mean ONE cistern coating designed to protect the water from the concrete.
From what I've read they mostly stuck with hydraulic concrete that had unique alumina ash admix. I'm sure if scientists and engineers were truly interested in replicating the old school stuff they could eventually do it, but we have just become accustomed to to using modern portland varieties.IamZeke, for your information, the reason our concrete has nothing on the Romans, is because the cement mixtures are made at the batch plant to dry as fast as possible, so construction can be completed as fast as possible. There is a relationship between the dry time and the strength of the concrete, and we can batch concrete that will last for centuries, but it would take significantly longer to dry and finish. No contractor wants to wait multiple days to finish the concrete, that's why the standard has evolved to wear it is. Suffice to say, concrete is very versatile.
Wtf????So obviously concrete can be changed,
. If you somehow assumed that I meant the chemical formula of the concrete in that sentence could be changed then how do you assume I meant the chemical formula of the water could be?water is easily changed, the concrete isn't
That''s the key sentence on that fire dept site. It's a topic we've been over many times in these forums and yet not one of the experts in this thread mentioned it. The reason you use cardboard or ply or blue foam is to pad the container from the concrete....not the water. On the micro scale, it's the same as you laying down on a marble. It might not hurt right off, but if you sleep there long enough, it will just about cripple you. Wooden pallets are the same. A full tank, large enough, will try to force its plastic down between the boards and it'll eventually crack the plastic. Imagine you laying on a mattress that's laying directly on the frame cross boards with no box springs etc. You need to fill in the spaces with extra boards or use a sheet of ply on top of the skid. Nails in the skids can start to back out and puncture the tank, too, so always make sure you tap those down smooth and solid before using a skid.Concrete will also degrade the plastic bottle causing failure.