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Old 02-18-2014, 01:03 AM
Outrider-05 Outrider-05 is offline
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Exclamation Survival fort idea.



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I have a concept of a fort design. Here is my general idea.

Have a strategically located central fort on high ground with easy access to water along with a well and manual pump system located within the structure. I wont be going into laborious detail right now but needless to say that enough open space for limited crops and animal husbandry is necessary. Now to my idea. REDOUBTS. for the sake of simplicity for my example we'll use 4. Four redoubts, one located at each compass point. Each redoubt should be connected to the main fort via trench system. Also each redoubt should be provisioned with food, munitions, and emergency supplies. Depending on available personnel, each redoubt should be manned as the situation demands. OPs can be placed at points between the redoubts as required. During an attack in which the primary facility falls, personnel will evacuate to their assigned redoubt. If an assigned redoubt has also fallen, a secondary must be assigned before hand. This is a broad general idea. This concept allows for area control and fallback contingencies. Please offer ideas and critiques.
Old 02-18-2014, 01:17 AM
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Everybody and their dog has a gun, sometimes big ones. The gubernment has rockets. It's hard to defend from chemical and biological weapons. It's getting harder to hide with night vision and iFLIR on every helmet.

Plan for handling waste, more folks die from unsanitary conditions inside sieges.
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:17 AM
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You going to make it out of concrete?

Because I can take out anything else out with commonly avalable materials.
who pays for it?

If so: it's a "compound" (Waco anyone?)

There are many issues addressed during WW2, (what was the name of that series of defenses which were bypassed) sieges don't turn out well etc.


Something you MIGHT get away with is "Spanish style" houses... Thick enough walls to be bullet proof, interior "courtyard" (could do intensive gardening for Atleast minimal fresh foods) and fire resistant.
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:22 AM
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What is your structure made of?
Old 02-18-2014, 01:33 AM
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Old barbed wire fence and posts cleverly positioned to look like a heap of junk rather than a tanglefoot obstacle...?

Heck, pour ICE Blocks http://www.iceblock.net and make it look like a house.
Build root cellars, barns or storage sheds, a fortified chicken coop to keep out the wolves.
Dig a place for a nice concrete sidewalk with a great foundation then run out of $$$ while the dirt is piled alongside the paths - which, conveniently, have a gravel base shoveled in?

Do it and have a blast!

Just make sure you have your beans and bullets.
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:12 AM
arleigh arleigh is offline
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An experienced soldier mentioned that it is best to engage an enemy at a distance from the BOL rather then at the BOL .
I tend to agree because most often a stationary position is easily surrounded and over taken.
Molotov cocktails are a serious issue mobs use all the time, history has proven.
IMO having distant surveillance and good communications every one can move as a team.
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outrider-05 View Post
Please offer ideas and critiques.
Do you have serious home construction skills? If not then do the smart thing and consult with a professional builder, civil engineer, or architect. Bring your wallet too.

As for building a fortified compound that actually works, I hope you have military engineering training. Otherwise my advice is just to build a nice home in a place remote enough you don't have to worry about marauding gangs of thugs.

If this is just a mental exercise for you then expect most folks to tease you about it here.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:10 AM
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You want enough people to mount a defense against run of the mill marauders and have enough variety in skills. Instead of redoubts make them concrete (with stucco) houses, connect them all with a wall on the outer wall of each house. The inner courtyard can be 1-2 acres and can even have houses inside of it as well.

In the ideal case you would buy 20-40 acres, sub plat them into a subdivision and lay it out so you can have 20 families who each pay for their own land/house. Split expenses amongst multiple people so that you can have heavy machinery, welding equipment/tools, shared well equipment, fire fighting equipment etc. HOA dues go to maintain the shared resources but people pay per use.

Deed restrictions require secure construction following whatever architectural guidelines you need to maintain security (security cameras, a root cellar, concrete construction with a tile roof, no windows on the first floor, steel entry doors, only food producing landscaping, hurricane windows/shutters etc.), solar panels. Basically the opposite of most HOAs.
Old 02-18-2014, 12:04 PM
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I've lived in a few of what you're talking about (and helped build them). The following resources might be of use to you:

Special Forces Camps in Vietnam 1961-70, By Gordon Rottman

E-book $9.99
http://books.google.com/books?id=9UN...0camps&f=false


Army FM 5-15 Field Fortifications 1968
http://www.survivalebooks.com/free%2...ons%20132p.pdf


FM 5-103 Survivability 1985
http://doomzdaypreppers.com/wp-conte...vivability.pdf


FM 3-05.230 Special Forces Tactical Facilities 2009
http://info.publicintelligence.net/U...Facilities.pdf
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:11 PM
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If I had the space , I would make or plant a camping trailer as far from the compound as possible on the most likely trail .
Then I would plant microphones all over the ground area .
In the event of a raider party find it, you might get heads up on what they intend on doing .
You should know they are coming before they know they are coming.
Ascertaining their numbers , combat teams can move with more intelligence long before they arrive. It also provides a character assessment depending on how they treat the trailer. and as an alarm as well as a security ID post for your troops.
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:25 PM
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Some options:

Have an underground home on the hill top, with a large open atrium with a parapet around the atrium, and several (make that many) pill boxes connected with tunnels all around the area, not just a perimeter ring. Need intersecting lines of fire. Will need more than a couple of people to defend.

Go with a three story keep, with a large parapet wall with semi-self-sufficient towers enclosing enough ground for the needs of the community. Add a few tunnel connected pill boxes/fighting positions. Still need several people.

Do a good fortified home, with several tunnel connected fighting positions, and have good arrangements with the neighbors, and good communications with them, for one or more to attack the aggressors from the rear if you are attacked, and vice versa.

Do a group of fortified buildings, including out buildings, with tall parapet walls connecting them. Each building set up to hold out locked down for several days. Doesn't have to be in a large circle. There can be groups of three or four that enclose usable acreage, with more walls connecting other buildings, creating more enclosed spaces. Tunnels connect all the buildings, with very good means to close them off if any building is lost to the enemy.

Make sure in any of the designs to account for water, ventilation, sanitation, fire resistance, impact resistance, food storage & prep, sleep facilities, and other things that will keep them livable, without creating a growing need to do anything to get out of the situation, while under siege.

Just some thoughts, and just my opinion.
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Old 02-18-2014, 03:26 PM
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Exclamation response to your input.

You all have raised valid points. First i would like to say that the construction of military style concrete fortifications would be impractical. Additionally,the construction of such structures would unnecessarily advertise that the location would be a viable target to attack.this is what ive come to understand.
1. Avoid overt military architecture.
2. Redoubts do not have to serve as mini-forts. But i am adament about a reboubt serving as both a forward observation post/fall back position.
3. The redoubt be connected to the primary facility by a trench system, though not elabrate,must be easily concealed and allow for covered movement.
4. Minimize as much as possible flammable material in the construction of primary structure such as house and any outbuildings serving a logistical purpose.
5. Primary "fort" can consist of a home with sufficient storage and living space for group members.
6. A safe distance from your fort, an emissary post be established for parlay and trade.

There are a few more. But I'll wait till later to add them.
Old 02-18-2014, 03:45 PM
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My preference would be a building built prior to 1950. Especially a small factory in a small town which has been abandoned for a number of years.

Pluses:
  1. Solid construction - Brick,steel and concrete. You can cover the windows without attracting too much attention and either remove or blockade the doors.
  2. All of the necessary infrastructure is already in place - Water lines, steam, electrical,etc. You can add to it to it as necessary.
  3. It looks inconspicous - If you buy and then work on it, people will believe that you are trying to repoen it as a business.
  4. Plenty of interior space - You park vehicles in side, it will accommodate a number of people and different types of machinery.
  5. Depending upon its location, its cost (or rent) can be very reasonable

Negatives (IMO)
  1. Asbestos - Anything built before 1970 (especially commercial) is going to have this as a building material. However after the SHTF, this may only be a minor concern.
  2. Anything over two storeys is going to require extra work to make secure - This may cost more.
  3. Size - It may be too big for certain people's security plans.
  4. Zoning restrictions - There may be some problems with living there. However, again, if the SHTF, then zoning isn't going to be a serious issue.
  5. Heating/cooling costs -This may be an issue prior to the SHTF. Afterward, not so much.

There are a number of small factory-style buildings in the Midwest and industrial Northeast. Most aren't being used or are tied up in legal disputes. If you can get your hands on one it could an excellent SHTF location, IMO.
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Old 02-18-2014, 04:12 PM
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How about a concrete pipe section 6 or more feet in diameter and about 6 feet in length planted with a few inches peeking out over ground level...? You can fill in the bottom with gravel for drainage and build firing steps around the perimeter or put a 3 foot culvert in the center and plant a tree. That way your redoubts are just planters for your trees...

Some of the larger pipes even have 3 foot holes in the sides where another pipe can be used for connecting it inconspicuously to a trenched walkway.

Just thinking out loud.
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Old 02-18-2014, 04:24 PM
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Ive purchased 10 acres of semi wooded land with a large creek on my western property line. Only access os an old logging road that runs straight through my plot from a secondary road.this build will take place in stages. Im planning on building a 30x25 cottage with storm shelter.later im planning on adding outbuildings within range of the main building to allow walls of some sort to connect them. Beyond that im hoping to hear ideas before finalizing my floorplans
Old 02-18-2014, 04:42 PM
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I want to take a moment to thank all of you who have offered constructive input.

Last edited by Doc_Shane; 02-19-2014 at 07:20 AM..
Old 02-18-2014, 06:04 PM
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Though it is only my personal opinion, i find that there is a difference between being a forethinking survivalist and and those who ascribe to the pop culture myth of survivalism. I truely doubt that there are sny "pop-survivalists" here. I do apologize for being overly sensitive. My purpose here is to get as many feasible ideas as possible to incorporate into a retreat as may suit my families needs. This project involves not only myself but my four brothers and their families as well. Between all of us there are growers, hunters, veterans and mechanics. I am envisioning my fort as something akin to a frontier brick and wood structure with a bunkhouse, smokehouse, small garage, greenhouse. This will serve as a primary defensive position for smaller family groups outside the main wall. These external family groups will also grow, husband poultry etc and will cluster around a redoubt. All within visual range of the main compound. In emergency situations where the families cant make it safely to the fort, will retreat to the redoubt which will be within long rifle range of the main fort. Under cover fire from the redoubt and fort, vulnerable persons can move via a 3-4'trench system to the main fort. This fort is not intended for permanent residence. But rather as a starting point of a long term family community. What I desire from this thread are ideas on how to make this feasible.
Old 02-18-2014, 06:43 PM
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cleansed thread...........
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Old 02-18-2014, 06:43 PM
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Throughout history all static defenses (castles, forts, cities, etc) have fallen or turned into rubble. In SHTF scenario any defense of a static place should be geared to slow down the attack and allow the defenders to scape and nothing else, unless you are just being attacked by a couple of fools..But if it is a large force your best bet is to escape and evade
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
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Throughout history all static defenses (castles, forts, cities, etc) have fallen or turned into rubble. In SHTF scenario any defense of a static place should be geared to slow down the attack and allow the defenders to scape and nothing else, unless you are just being attacked by a couple of fools..But if it is a large force your best bet is to escape and evade
well usually they are used as launching points for defense. If you get into a siege against a supplied enemy you will lose. But plenty of forts have survived battles and wars.

since the OP mentioned multiple families, why not let each family build a house and then surround them with a wall. Each house provides a way to provide cross fire and monitor in every direction.

Build each family a small concrete cabin at first then keep expanding.
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