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Old 08-07-2013, 03:59 PM
cnpiso cnpiso is offline
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Default Nitride-treated vs. chrome-lined AK bores?



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Lancaster Arms is offering its line of AK rifles with nitride-treated bores vs. chrome-lined bores.

http://www.lancasterarms.com/NITRIDE...EAT%20PAGE.htm

Does anyone here have experience with nitride-treated barrels? Is nitride-treatment superior to chrome-lining in maintaining the life of the bore?

Info appreciated.
Old 08-07-2013, 05:06 PM
finishman2000 finishman2000 is offline
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I have it on my two adams arms 5.45x39 ar uppers. cleans up easy, seems tough enough and I have no complaints about it. Is it better? don't know
Old 08-07-2013, 06:48 PM
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Lancaster had a whole bunch of QC and customer service problems. Do a bit of searching before doing any business with them
Old 08-08-2013, 10:22 AM
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Unobtanium Unobtanium is offline
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QPQ is superior to chrome-lining regarding a bore.
However, I would not own an AK-47 equipped with an American made barrel. America makes a whole 'lotta good stuff, but AK's ain't one of 'em.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:38 AM
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Heckler&Coke Heckler&Coke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
QPQ is superior to chrome-lining regarding a bore.
However, I would not own an AK-47 equipped with an American made barrel. America makes a whole 'lotta good stuff, but AK's ain't one of 'em.
There's nothing wrong with american made barrels...I've gone through a dozen green mountain cl 4140 barrels in my AKs, all were just fine, and well worth the $100 lol. I finally came to the conclusion that QPQ/nitride is indeed preferable, but CL is not by any means obsolescent. Still works.

I had a lancaster that was very good, I got it from Atlantic before Lancaster went way downhill. Not sure how they are now, but before their plague era they made very good AKs for the money.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:41 AM
TAKticool TAKticool is offline
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You do not need chrome lined barrels to be "good" ... I own a Serbian Zastava PAP {one of the 2010 originals) and often will be written on the forums as a "Yugo". I am extremely happy with this and consider it to be the top of the line AKs Other Than things like Arsenal which have significant "up-fitting" or TLC time . In addition to the RPK 50% thicker receiver, the Zastava Arms engineers determined a non-chrome lined barrel is superior for accuracy and when you are talking about a not-exactly-match-grade platform to begin with, this is huge. Also combine the 1.5mm thick receiver vs the 1mm thick, which eliminates lot more of flexing during firing, it really increases your accuracy.


Now of course, we are as a population of internet firearms forum people, brainwaished that we need chrome lined barrels, just like we are brainwashed we need 1:7 AR barrels, F marked FSBs, "properly staked gas keys!!!!!!" and a host of other things AR commandos continually parrot online but really have no idea what they are in fact talking about, they just know their stuff is better than your (and mine) stuff. Because they said so because some other guy said so and they repost his knowledge as their knowledge and that is the way it is. So it goes with chrome lining. Not bad to have but not a "no go" at least in this posters opinion.
Old 08-08-2013, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAKticool View Post
You do not need chrome lined barrels to be "good" ... I own a Serbian Zastava PAP {one of the 2010 originals) and often will be written on the forums as a "Yugo". I am extremely happy with this and consider it to be the top of the line AKs Other Than things like Arsenal which have significant "up-fitting" or TLC time . In addition to the RPK 50% thicker receiver, the Zastava Arms engineers determined a non-chrome lined barrel is superior for accuracy and when you are talking about a not-exactly-match-grade platform to begin with, this is huge. Also combine the 1.5mm thick receiver vs the 1mm thick, which eliminates lot more of flexing during firing, it really increases your accuracy.


Now of course, we are as a population of internet firearms forum people, brainwaished that we need chrome lined barrels, just like we are brainwashed we need 1:7 AR barrels, F marked FSBs, "properly staked gas keys!!!!!!" and a host of other things AR commandos continually parrot online but really have no idea what they are in fact talking about, they just know their stuff is better than your (and mine) stuff. Because they said so because some other guy said so and they repost his knowledge as their knowledge and that is the way it is. So it goes with chrome lining. Not bad to have but not a "no go" at least in this posters opinion.
There's very good reason for 1:7 twist, and a non-CL, 1.5mm receiver isn't going to make a "huge" difference. What really makes a huge difference is putting rounds down range. My yugo was a fine shooter, but really, so were all my AKs. Not really a "huge" difference, in fact, it's completely negligible until you pop off some higher quality ammo than mil-surp and wolf, even then, it's still fairly negligible for practical applications unless you're using glass and a bench. The irony of your post in this regard is pretty funny.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:07 AM
Doc_Jon Doc_Jon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hizzie View Post
Lancaster had a whole bunch of QC and customer service problems. Do a bit of searching before doing any business with them
Supposedly they are under new management and are taking great pains to build the name back up.

I think most of the complaints were more about customer service and 1-2 year wait times than quality control...everyone makes a few lemons and if your company is going under you probably start making more...i have seen two Lancaster Arms rifles and I would put them up against an arsenal arms, and i have never spoke with anyone who had a bad one, just read the stories...

I would personally stay away from American made barrels for an AK though...supposedly all the bugs have been worked out, but as long as you can get a com-block barrel i would do so, even if it costs more...from a technology point of view, the new American made Nitride-treated barrels should be "better" (ie, never flake) than chrome-lined AK barrels, but i doubt they are cold hammer forged, which would make the chrome lined AK barrel superior as far as barrel life goes...stick with the surplus/arsenal imported barrels and you shouldn't have a problem...if you really want the Nitride treatment then it can be done to chromed barrels, and might not be such a bad idea in the long run...i am thinking about having it done to a complete rifle, cost is around 200..

There is a bore diameter difference between 7.62 NATO and 7.62x39...NATO is closer to true .308 where the 7.62x39 varies from .310-.311 depending on make and age...I believe this is where most problems come from, I know it causes problems for ammunition and is why some domestic 7.62x39 ammo is so inaccurate in an AK while good com-block spec ammo has very acceptable accuracy in a well built AK (its not a match rifle).

Actually, a milled Lancaster arms side folder is on my wish list...make that two, one set up like an AK104 and the other a side folding krink build that i plan to SBR (both are long term plans)...next time K-var has a barrel sale I plan on picking up some barrels and bolts and having Lancaster build on those...as well as I have one of the underfold kits and a classic barrel that I need to send them whenever i get around to it (i have too many projects that are half way finished so everything is on hold until i get caught up).

Last time i talked to them they had a couple month back order and that was BEFORE the big buying craze...i guess they are taking their time to try to kill off all the QC/CS stories with a quality product...who knows now, but the prices on their site seemed to be reasonable.

If you get one then please post a full review
Old 08-08-2013, 11:17 AM
Doc_Jon Doc_Jon is offline
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For my fellow Milled-AKs-are-Better! cult members...

a couple of weeks ago i e-mailed Firing Line to see when their next batch of Milled 7.62x39 side folding receivers would be available....they said they DO NOT have a time frame for when back in stock or even an option to pre-order...so sad...that's why i took a greater interest in Lancaster...

I have been e-mailing CNC warrior for years that i was interested in a milled side folding receiver and they keep replying they are working on one, keep watching and with more demand it will be brought out more quickly...I have been e-mailing them for years, so I think that Lancaster is, for the foreseeable future, the only option for a milled side folder...

Just some FYI
Old 08-08-2013, 06:40 PM
Lylac_Krazy Lylac_Krazy is offline
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I would suggest asking yourself this:

Will YOU notice a difference?
Old 08-08-2013, 08:17 PM
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i can't speak for the OP, but the com-block cold hammer forged barrel will, without a doubt, outlast any domestically produced nonforged Nitride barrel, even if all dimensions are identical...the cold hammer forged barrel is stronger overall.

BUT, that is only if he shoots it enough...under 20k rounds i doubt if anyone could tell a difference.
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:11 PM
Sinlessorrow Sinlessorrow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc_Jon View Post
i can't speak for the OP, but the com-block cold hammer forged barrel will, without a doubt, outlast any domestically produced nonforged Nitride barrel, even if all dimensions are identical...the cold hammer forged barrel is stronger overall.

BUT, that is only if he shoots it enough...under 20k rounds i doubt if anyone could tell a difference.
Ak-74 barrels are only good for 10,000 rounds according to Izmash when subjected to lots of automatic fire.

But for low round counts and semi you can easily get 20,000 out of almost any barrel.

As far as nitrided barrels go, numerous barrels in the IC Featured this and none showed any marked increase in barrel life. One thing that makes Nitriding Superior the disposal cost of what is not used. Chrome is far more expensive to dispose of since it is incredibly toxic.
Old 08-09-2013, 07:12 PM
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Hard Hittin 54r Hard Hittin 54r is offline
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Chrome = no rust & less cleaning...

HH54r
Old 08-09-2013, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
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Chrome = no rust & less cleaning...

HH54r
Chrome can indeed be rusted through. Qpq as well, but it is more resistant.
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