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Old 07-14-2013, 03:01 PM
ben1022 ben1022 is offline
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Default The great caliber debate 9mm vs .45 vs Rifle A Dr's View of Gunshot



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Found this on youtube and thought it might give some insight in the great caliber debate. So go to youtube and search "9mm vs .45 vs Rifle A Dr's View of Gunshot". The dr in the video gives great insight as to what happens when a human is hit by different calibers.
Old 07-14-2013, 03:08 PM
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if your going to stir up a **** storm,you should at least post a link...
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:26 PM
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I would post a link but I am on my black berry and the link I would post is to moble youtube. But for those of you that are curious about the video, its about 30 mins long. I personally and not trying to stir up a "**** storm". Just trying to give a more scientific look at the debate. I personally don't give a shat about which cal is better. The way I see it is the best caliber is the one u have on u when u need it. I generally carry a taurus judge public defender which is a debate unto its self. I also like the s&w bodygaurd. So guess u can see me as a neutral party in the great debate. But the video also covers the AK vs AR debate. Which I can ssy I am more partual to the AR but that is more of a formilarity thing than it is a caliber thing. Being an active duty air force guy, I have more trigger time with the AR so I just happen to be more comfortible with it.
Old 07-14-2013, 03:33 PM
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Default non doctor speak.

both are going to hurt you. projo placement counts in both, if "STOPPING is the game." (DRT) is a stop. 9mm is like a hard fast ball pitched by a major leaguer. 45 is like the bowling ball dropped into someones lap. both will hurt you. a maginal hit don't "STOP" or (DRT). shot placement. shot placement shot. placement. be safe.
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:50 PM
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Not sure about all that. Not saying I believe EVERYTHING I watch on youtube, lol. But per the doc in the video, a 9mm bullet hitting the body is about the same as a 10 pound weight being dropped one inch from the skin. (Probably miss quoted that) Granted its gonna hurt. But I would assume a baseball thrown at about 90 mph is probably going to have more blunt force than a 9mm bullet based on size, density, speed and shape. But like I stated I'm no expert.
Old 07-14-2013, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by n1oc View Post
both are going to hurt you. projo placement counts in both, if "STOPPING is the game." (DRT) is a stop. 9mm is like a hard fast ball pitched by a major leaguer. 45 is like the bowling ball dropped into someones lap. both will hurt you. a maginal hit don't "STOP" or (DRT). shot placement. shot placement shot. placement. be safe.
This, and this is why I use a 9.

I would have to put a lot of rounds through a 45 to be as good with it as I am with a 9.
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Old 07-14-2013, 04:07 PM
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:40 PM
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This, and this is why I use a 9.

I would have to put a lot of rounds through a 45 to be as good with it as I am with a 9.
You should watch that video. They make some great points about the 9mm and what it does to a human body.
Old 07-15-2013, 01:22 PM
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA#. Found the link to the video. So if u want to check it out, go for it.
Old 07-16-2013, 04:36 AM
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Sorry to burst your bubble there, but my wife is a C.E.N. (Certified Emergency Nurse) that works in the E.R. of a hospital. Although she isn't really much on the subject of ballistics, some of the doctors and E.M.T.s are often willing to have conversations with me about the subject. Just recently a local coroner actually invited me to sit in as the cause of death was confirmed.

Having spoken to numerous medical experts that aren't relying on theory but actual experience dealing with gunshot wounds, I have learned that my grandfather and uncles were right. Any gunshot wound is potentially deadly, but a .45 ACP wound is particularly nasty. I have literally seen pics of exit wounds from different calibers. This aint' no theory stuff, the .45 ACP is DEVASTATING, while the 9mm not so much.
Old 07-16-2013, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by usti waya 43 View Post
Sorry to burst your bubble there, but my wife is a C.E.N. (Certified Emergency Nurse) that works in the E.R. of a hospital. Although she isn't really much on the subject of ballistics, some of the doctors and E.M.T.s are often willing to have conversations with me about the subject. Just recently a local coroner actually invited me to sit in as the cause of death was confirmed.

Having spoken to numerous medical experts that aren't relying on theory but actual experience dealing with gunshot wounds, I have learned that my grandfather and uncles were right. Any gunshot wound is potentially deadly, but a .45 ACP wound is particularly nasty. I have literally seen pics of exit wounds from different calibers. This aint' no theory stuff, the .45 ACP is DEVASTATING, while the 9mm not so much.
yeh i like real world experience to.

http://www.policeone.com/police-hero...b_ref=homepage

i like 20 round 9mm mags in the beretta 92.they only hang down 1/4" more then normal mags.ballistics isnt much different with modern hollow point designs.

got to point out the trayvon martin case here.a single 9mm from a tiny little kel tec.

so no,you didnt burst no bubbles.they all work and they all fail...
Old 07-16-2013, 05:09 AM
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yeh i like real world experience to.

http://www.policeone.com/police-hero...b_ref=homepage

i like 20 round 9mm mags in the beretta 92.they only hang down 1/4" more then normal mags.ballistics isnt much different with modern hollow point designs.

got to point out the trayvon martin case here.a single 9mm from a tiny little kel tec.

so no,you didnt burst no bubbles.they all work and they all fail...
It's possible to find links to real world events where a single round of .22 Lr. killed someone. ANY CALIBER HAS THE POTENTIAL TO INFLICT FATAL WOUNDS. The OP called his thread "the great debate 9mm vs .45 vs rifle a dr's view.." not a comparison of calibers and gunshot wounds in general.

I like a Beretta M9 too. I like the Walther PPK that my wife carries for that matter. Yet I've seen the difference between the damage a 9mm and .45 ACP makes. I've talked with medical personel that have treated gunshot victims. What a 200 Gr. JHP from a .45 ACP will do when it meets the chest of someone is simply DEVASTATING. The exit wounds have to be seen to be fully appreciated.

Keep your bias for the 9mm. I'll take what a bullet twice as big, yet also with a hollow-pont does. Far as capacity goes, if you really feel the need for those double-columm mags., several companies offer the .45 ACP with high capacity as well. The law enforcement agencies have long forgotten the 9mm disaster and moved on to a .40 S&W. The military is stuck with the 9mm for NATO compliance.
Old 07-16-2013, 05:16 AM
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The only debate is with the fanboys.
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Old 07-16-2013, 05:32 AM
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The only debate is with the fanboys.
For what it's worth, I'm a dedicated "fanboy" of the .44 Mag./.44 Spl. Yet those calibers are most often found in revolvers. If/when a pistol is called upon for use then it comes down not to bias for me, yet a great deal of research. At the end of the day, I want to make a well-educated decision about what guns/calibers best serve the purpose they are intended for.

For a pistol, I have yet to find anything that "fits the bill" for protection like a Ruger P-345. That's not my saying Ruger is the best gun company or the P-345 is the best pistol out there. Just that I have never found the need for high-capacity pistols, the P-345 is comfortable to hold and shoot, is DA/SA which I perfer (just my thing with pistols) and is chambered in quite an impressive round. I'm not the die-hard .45 ACP guy, nor even own a 1911.

You won't ever see me pick a username like 44man or knock a specific caliber UNLESS I feel the comparison being made (like a 9mm vs. the .45 ACP) is not on the level. It's strictly about the facts not the bias here.
Old 07-16-2013, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by usti waya 43 View Post
For what it's worth, I'm a dedicated "fanboy" of the .44 Mag./.44 Spl. Yet those calibers are most often found in revolvers. If/when a pistol is called upon for use then it comes down not to bias for me, yet a great deal of research. At the end of the day, I want to make a well-educated decision about what guns/calibers best serve the purpose they are intended for.

For a pistol, I have yet to find anything that "fits the bill" for protection like a Ruger P-345. That's not my saying Ruger is the best gun company or the P-345 is the best pistol out there. Just that I have never found the need for high-capacity pistols, the P-345 is comfortable to hold and shoot, is DA/SA which I perfer (just my thing with pistols) and is chambered in quite an impressive round. I'm not the die-hard .45 ACP guy, nor even own a 1911.

You won't ever see me pick a username like 44man or knock a specific caliber UNLESS I feel the comparison being made (like a 9mm vs. the .45 ACP) is not on the level. It's strictly about the facts not the bias here.
yeh your not bias... ether am i,i just like bursting bubbles of bubble bursters.

your the first "i dont want to shoot twice" fan boy to post...i have seen 100s of these threads,nothing new yet.
Old 07-16-2013, 02:19 PM
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yeh your not bias... ether am i,i just like bursting bubbles of bubble bursters.

your the first "i dont want to shoot twice" fan boy to post...i have seen 100s of these threads,nothing new yet.
And which of us are using a caliber for a username again? I'm not biased toward a .45 ACP, the choice to use that caliber simply reflects extensive research to find the best caliber for protection in a pistol format. You obviously want a round half the size to be something that law enforcement among countless others have learned it's not.

Also I never remarked "i don't want to shoot twice". Were it neccessary to use a .45 ACP for protection (or any caliber) then I would intend upon firing at least two rounds if not more, until I was certain there was no longer a threat.
Old 07-16-2013, 04:02 PM
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to toss a little fat onto the fire I own both 9mm and .45acp carbines. curiously at around 50' a 9mm+P 124gr jhp makes near as large a damage path in stacked wet carboard as the .45 185gr jhp. about indistinguishable.
and penetration is a bit more than the .45
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Old 07-16-2013, 04:11 PM
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Default 9mm is a better penetrator.

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Originally Posted by Marlin 45 carbine View Post
to toss a little fat onto the fire I own both 9mm and .45acp carbines. curiously at around 50' a 9mm+P 124gr jhp makes near as large a damage path in stacked wet carboard as the .45 185gr jhp. about indistinguishable.
and penetration is a bit more than the .45
9mm has less frontal area and higher velocity, so better penetration. how does 9mm 115grn do vs .45 230 grn. standard loads?

Last edited by n1oc; 07-16-2013 at 04:12 PM.. Reason: oops
Old 07-16-2013, 06:55 PM
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Hopefully everyone watches the entire video before posting here, as it would be more beneficial first. 90% of what the good doctor had to say was nothing new to me however. Been in several work related "incidents" personally, and would agree with his assessments overall. Also busy at hog dumping, and hunting in general.

The obvious conclusions below.........

1. It is stupid to compare high powered rifles to that of handgun calibers or shotguns. ( Especially handgun calibers and even if the shot is placed right....regardless of body armor or not.)

2. Equally stupid to compare effects of intermediate calibers to that of high powered rifle calibers. ( 30-30 to7.62 NATO and up).
Ie....... No such thing as magic bullets. Also confirms what I already know to be true concerning M80.

3. His comparison with what it feels like to get hit with 9mm is right about how it felt when I was hit with 9mm (147gr black Talon)...... Not to mention the value of body armor.

4. Handgun calibers kill more folks each year simply because the firearms they are chambered for are much more easily concealed. More of a push towards body armor.

5. The "hit to help" ratio concerning the time involved to move a body from off the battlefield to the operating table.

6. At least half of them ridiculous "rules of a gunfight" nonsense. Especially the one about a "caliber that MUST starts with a 4". I view most of that baloney as entertainment value only, but feel that a lot of folks look at it to be gosphel.....

7. The bigger the bad guy is, the easier it is to kill him.

8. Extra Frag's are better to have than a handgun concerning work related "incidents". Off duty is a different story however.


There is a few more, but ya get the idea.

Things that I found of particular interest, and/or was unsure about.........

1. The reason as to why the "smart" folks in the Army decided to remove the IV's from our CLS bags. ( We were told one thing, but what the Doctor said made more sense.)

2. I had several combat related incidents that happened in the past that simply did not make sense to me with how it unfolded. Some of the other information in the video did help to better explain a few of those past events that I didn't really have an answer for in my own head.

Note: The links to the video provided here did not work for me, so I went and found it directly thru the you tube sight and found it there.

All should see it regardless of education, skill levels, and personal experience.


11B
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:57 PM
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This, and this is why I use a 9.

I would have to put a lot of rounds through a 45 to be as good with it as I am with a 9.
I had several thousand rounds through my XD-9, and I'm pretty decent with it.

Then I bought an XD-45, and man, I'm just so much better with it. I have no idea why, but it's my go-to gun.

In the end, use the gun you use the best.
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