Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > Survival & Preparedness Forum > Financial Forum
Articles Chat Room Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files



Financial Forum Economics and Precious Metals

Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-18-2013, 10:59 AM
FskJester FskJester is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Martin Michigan
Posts: 79
Thanks: 8
Thanked 44 Times in 23 Posts
Default Real estate when shtf



Advertise Here

So these days real estate (as a long term investment) is always a good investment. However I'm wondering if I have (let's just say) 60 acres of land and 7 houses on divided plats. When shtf will it be worth anything? I'm wondering if people will still pay you something of value or work off a house or something vs just coming with bigger guns than mine, saying 7 is too many and taking 1 or more? What do you think things will be like?
The Following User Says Thank You to FskJester For This Useful Post:
Old 06-18-2013, 11:08 AM
Old Soldier's Avatar
Old Soldier Old Soldier is offline
Winter is coming.....
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere between the Red and the Rio Grande
Posts: 2,802
Thanks: 3,358
Thanked 7,542 Times in 2,081 Posts
Default

Land will always hold value for many reasons.
Area for grazing.
Area for Cultivation of food
Defensive zones
Ability to deny approach or occupation

There are probably many more I'm missing but those come to mind immediately.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Old Soldier For This Useful Post:
Old 06-18-2013, 11:14 AM
Jerry D Young's Avatar
Jerry D Young Jerry D Young is offline
www.jerrydyoung.com

 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Age: 60
Posts: 7,661
Thanks: 8,162
Thanked 38,265 Times in 5,305 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Thread 
Total Awards: 1
Default

It is going to be highly dependent on the actual scenario. In most cases there will still be Rule of Law in effect, and options to continue to collect rent. Might not be a bad idea to put in the lease/rental contract alternative payment methods in case of such situations.

My plan, if I ever get the money to implement it is to have quadraplexes on large corner lots in small towns, with ex-military as live in manager/maintenance. With the live-in manager, even if covering several units in one town, I believe it will be easier to make arrangements to keep people in the units that are both productive and will help defend the place.

The other option I want to incorporate is full or partial ownership of working farms/ranches. Not only is there income potential, by having farm products as part of the payment plan, there should be a pretty good source of continuing, long term food supplies.

Also, having the means to buy up properties during the mid to late times of the disaster, for pennies on the dollar, is an option that might be considered. A bit cold hearted, but with a potential to make quite a bit once things settle down. If they do.

Just having rental properties without pretty constant personal contact, either by the owner or a good manager, with the tenants, isn't going to have much luck collecting rent during the crisis. Collecting it after things settle down are going to be problematical.

Just my opinion.
__________________
Jerry D Young
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Jerry D Young For This Useful Post:
Old 06-18-2013, 04:39 PM
Kipper Kipper is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,269
Thanks: 1,351
Thanked 3,609 Times in 1,688 Posts
Default

In the event of a full on TEOTWAWKI the people who hold the land will probably be those who can defend it, and all previous ownership contracts will be worthless pieces of paper.

However, I think a good portion of people even on these forums think a full on TEOTWAWKI is not that likely, including me.

I dont know know the answer to this, but you may like to look into how property ownership works in a place like Somalia or some other country where the rule of law is virtually non-existant.
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Kipper For This Useful Post:
Old 06-18-2013, 04:50 PM
lowlife lowlife is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mn
Posts: 1,126
Thanks: 391
Thanked 1,334 Times in 608 Posts
Default

I am a land owner and am not so concerned about losing it to people but losing it to the Gov't either through not being able to pay the taxes or outright confiscation. I am in the class of "don't think it will come to it though" If necessary I can see most all of it and can "hit" on almost all of it.
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to lowlife For This Useful Post:
Old 06-18-2013, 04:57 PM
ncbill ncbill is offline
Trapper
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Triad, NC
Posts: 817
Thanks: 453
Thanked 538 Times in 318 Posts
Default

In many other countries of the world it is relatively easy to legally lose your land to squatters, who may only have to occupy it a few months before asserting legal claim.

That's not the case here in the U.S., yet...
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ncbill For This Useful Post:
Old 06-18-2013, 10:22 PM
TxRanchMedic's Avatar
TxRanchMedic TxRanchMedic is offline
Hiker
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 666
Thanks: 162
Thanked 608 Times in 277 Posts
Default

That's why the outer fence is patrolled daily.
The Following User Says Thank You to TxRanchMedic For This Useful Post:
Old 06-18-2013, 10:27 PM
havoc1969's Avatar
havoc1969 havoc1969 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 237
Thanks: 8
Thanked 156 Times in 82 Posts
Default

As has been stated, your land is only yours as long as you can continually defend it...
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to havoc1969 For This Useful Post:
Old 06-19-2013, 12:20 AM
Mogli's Avatar
Mogli Mogli is offline
Recent Blog: Atlanta, Georgia
Beware..... AmeriKa!!!
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nor Ca. Land of the lost!
Posts: 15,056
Thanks: 37,575
Thanked 34,581 Times in 11,843 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by havoc1969 View Post
As has been stated, your land is only yours as long as you can continually defend it...
That's true. Once a country takes a Communist turn, which we surely have, nationalism can happen at any time. I suspect it would have already happened if not for the 2nd Amendment and our heavily armed population. We ARE the biggest army in the world!

It would be best to buy land in a state where legislators, law enforcement, and the citizens are mostly on the side of the Constitution. Like ID, WY, TX, AZ, UT. I would avoid buying property in any heavily blue states especially if they are heavily in debt. I'm not pointing any out in particular.... BUT, I would avoid Ca. NY, NJ, and CT and in that order. Like the plague.

But that's just my own paranoid thinking. I am looking to buy land in Idaho where if SHTF the authorities of the state will be more likely to defend my and their rights, more closely, as originally laid out in the Constitution. None of the states are acting in a Constitutional manner these days. But there is definitely 'less' BAD.
__________________
I'm coming to get you!!!... AND, I'm bringing my dog!!!

http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Mogli For This Useful Post:
Old 06-19-2013, 12:28 AM
Mogli's Avatar
Mogli Mogli is offline
Recent Blog: Atlanta, Georgia
Beware..... AmeriKa!!!
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nor Ca. Land of the lost!
Posts: 15,056
Thanks: 37,575
Thanked 34,581 Times in 11,843 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowlife View Post
I am a land owner and am not so concerned about losing it to people but losing it to the Gov't either through not being able to pay the taxes or outright confiscation. I am in the class of "don't think it will come to it though" If necessary I can see most all of it and can "hit" on almost all of it.
That's what they would have said about TSA sexually abusing women and children a few years ago. 'Naw, not here! The men folk would kill them!'
__________________
I'm coming to get you!!!... AND, I'm bringing my dog!!!

http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/
The Following User Says Thank You to Mogli For This Useful Post:
Old 06-19-2013, 04:03 AM
Survivalguy72 Survivalguy72 is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,722
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8,956 Times in 4,457 Posts
Default

No one is going to invade you with big guns. It will be worth the same thing it was before the storm. Assuming you clean it up and weren't stupid enough to build in a flood zone.
The Following User Says Thank You to Survivalguy72 For This Useful Post:
Old 06-19-2013, 08:00 AM
sierra skier's Avatar
sierra skier sierra skier is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Eastern Sierra Nevada
Posts: 4,181
Thanks: 9,672
Thanked 6,972 Times in 2,877 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogli View Post
That's true. Once a country takes a Communist turn, which we surely have, nationalism can happen at any time. I suspect it would have already happened if not for the 2nd Amendment and our heavily armed population. We ARE the biggest army in the world!

It would be best to buy land in a state where legislators, law enforcement, and the citizens are mostly on the side of the Constitution. Like ID, WY, TX, AZ, UT. I would avoid buying property in any heavily blue states especially if they are heavily in debt. I'm not pointing any out in particular.... BUT, I would avoid Ca. NY, NJ, and CT and in that order. Like the plague.

But that's just my own paranoid thinking. I am looking to buy land in Idaho where if SHTF the authorities of the state will be more likely to defend my and their rights, more closely, as originally laid out in the Constitution. None of the states are acting in a Constitutional manner these days. But there is definitely 'less' BAD.
We are currently in the process of voting with our feet. We live in an incredible area of the beautiful state of California but the politics, firearms laws, and sanctuary cities and state for illegals is driving us out.

PM sent
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to sierra skier For This Useful Post:
Old 06-19-2013, 11:15 AM
seeya seeya is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,125
Thanks: 1,165
Thanked 1,023 Times in 549 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FskJester View Post
So these days real estate (as a long term investment) is always a good investment. However I'm wondering if I have (let's just say) 60 acres of land and 7 houses on divided plats. When shtf will it be worth anything? I'm wondering if people will still pay you something of value or work off a house or something vs just coming with bigger guns than mine, saying 7 is too many and taking 1 or more? What do you think things will be like?
What could you buy that is 100% guaranteed to not be confiscated or stolen?

The feds wouldn't need the end of the world to take your 60 acres. Maybe they just want to build a school or put in a airport.

What if they raised taxes 1000% every year until you couldn't afford to pay?
What if they put on rent controls so you couldn't charge what you needed to even cover taxes and upkeep?

You never know what would happen. The best we can do is diversify. If 7 homes is 10-25% of your savings it would be a good bet.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to seeya For This Useful Post:
Old 06-19-2013, 10:02 PM
lowlife lowlife is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mn
Posts: 1,126
Thanks: 391
Thanked 1,334 Times in 608 Posts
Default

I love Minnesota but it is swiftly turning into a festering cesspool of greed and corruption. Our Gov is heir to the Dayton fortune, has never held a "real" job and is so out of touch with reality that it is getting harder to live here. Tax the land, tax the sky, tax the businesses as they are evil, tax tax tax, and to make matters worse the Liberal Metro area is growing far faster than outstate.

Find a state with no "real" metro areas or centers of power. Its almost like our brain fries out from the heat of all the pavement when you move to a Metro area.
The Following User Says Thank You to lowlife For This Useful Post:
Old 06-19-2013, 10:08 PM
cffwy cffwy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 54
Thanks: 38
Thanked 53 Times in 20 Posts
Default

John Gierach once said: if you think you own your land, try not paying your propery taxes, just once.
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to cffwy For This Useful Post:
Old 06-20-2013, 12:37 AM
stabbingmantis stabbingmantis is offline
Target Shooter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 419
Thanks: 156
Thanked 369 Times in 215 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowlife View Post
I love Minnesota but it is swiftly turning into a festering cesspool of greed and corruption. Our Gov is heir to the Dayton fortune, has never held a "real" job and is so out of touch with reality that it is getting harder to live here. Tax the land, tax the sky, tax the businesses as they are evil, tax tax tax, and to make matters worse the Liberal Metro area is growing far faster than outstate.

Find a state with no "real" metro areas or centers of power. Its almost like our brain fries out from the heat of all the pavement when you move to a Metro area.
AZ gets pretty darn hot, especially in the metro Phoenix area, but we're still (mostly) sane. Maybe it's just so hot that you get used to having a cooked brain.
The Following User Says Thank You to stabbingmantis For This Useful Post:
Old 06-22-2013, 06:27 AM
strvger strvger is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: from the north woods to the high desert.
Age: 63
Posts: 3,077
Thanks: 1,189
Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,184 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowlife View Post
I love Minnesota but it is swiftly turning into a festering cesspool of greed and corruption. Our Gov is heir to the Dayton fortune, has never held a "real" job and is so out of touch with reality that it is getting harder to live here. Tax the land, tax the sky, tax the businesses as they are evil, tax tax tax, and to make matters worse the Liberal Metro area is growing far faster than outstate.

Find a state with no "real" metro areas or centers of power. Its almost like our brain fries out from the heat of all the pavement when you move to a Metro area.
sounds like it's about time you moved out of the cities. i hate it there but i have to get down there once every month or so for a couple of days. i love it up here in the arrowhead region. actually, just about anywhere in the northern 1/3 of the state is pretty good except the duluth area has too many people for my tastes.
Old 06-22-2013, 08:15 AM
Kansas Terri Kansas Terri is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,316
Thanks: 2,705
Thanked 4,727 Times in 2,011 Posts
Default

A true story from the great depression.

A man was buying lots, building houses, and selling them on land contract. The great depression hit: because his buyers could no longer make their land contract payments, he could not make his own building loan payments, and he lost the entire investment.

This story had a happy ending, of sorts. He did NOT! have a mortgage any longer on his home place, as it had been paid off. He did not lose the home place. So, he bought the small unsalable fruit from the local orange farmers, bottled the juice, and sold it to the local schools to serve inn the cafeterias. His family provided the labor. He lost a lot during the depression, but he did not lose it all.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kansas Terri For This Useful Post:
Old 06-22-2013, 08:36 AM
aramchek's Avatar
aramchek aramchek is offline
Prepared
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 10,994
Thanks: 1,060
Thanked 11,939 Times in 5,562 Posts
Default

And that's the predicament that those who are wealthy/fortunate enough to own land face. They can lose it through confiscatory taxation, eminent domain, re-zoning, etc. And yet if the government were to implode and we descended into lawlessness, the sheet of paper that says they own it would be worthless also. And no law enforcement, court, etc. would be coming to defend them (feudalistic type scenario, no central government).

Only real solution I see is that you need to be fairly rich. Lacking Allodial Title, you'll have to "pay someone off" in order to keep it. It'll either be the government into perpetuity, a feudal warlord, the mob, landlord, bank, or someone. You can never own it outright in our society. There's always someone with the political/coercive power to demand a cut.

Another thing to ponder is the 50% of people too poor to own property in many large urban areas. If they suddenly quit paying their rent, didn't get their government assistance, or could live in shantytowns for free, this would cause a downward cascade across the whole real estate market. So one of the many things propping up real estate is that people are generally forbidden to live anywhere for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowlife View Post
I am a land owner and am not so concerned about losing it to people but losing it to the Gov't either through not being able to pay the taxes or outright confiscation. I am in the class of "don't think it will come to it though" If necessary I can see most all of it and can "hit" on almost all of it.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to aramchek For This Useful Post:
Old 06-22-2013, 08:50 AM
ForestBeekeeper's Avatar
ForestBeekeeper ForestBeekeeper is offline
Farmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Maine
Posts: 15,164
Thanks: 17,072
Thanked 20,543 Times in 8,417 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Helpful Post 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FskJester View Post
So these days real estate (as a long term investment) is always a good investment. However I'm wondering if I have (let's just say) 60 acres of land and 7 houses on divided plats. When shtf will it be worth anything? I'm wondering if people will still pay you something of value or work off a house or something vs just coming with bigger guns than mine, saying 7 is too many and taking 1 or more? What do you think things will be like?
During the Great Depression people still needed housing. Coming out of the GD, as soon as there was SS and an assortment of welfare programs, than even the out-of-work had cash flow and were able to pay rent.

Where guns came into play was as farmers defaulted on their mortgages, banks used the courts to legally take back land, and it was the sheriff deputies who used guns to evict the farmers.

Those who stood to profit were the bankers, lawyers and sheriff department.

Once the banks had became land heavy and cash light, each individual in that group [bankers, lawyers, LEOs] were on hand to conveniently buy property for pennies on the dollar.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ForestBeekeeper For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What was real estate like in the 80s? SG1 Financial Forum 11 12-22-2012 10:52 AM
Real Estate Anyone? loadthedog Financial Forum 26 07-14-2011 05:07 PM
real estate going down again methemom Financial Forum 11 05-08-2010 08:27 PM
Real Estate Northern Raider British Isles and ROI 5 02-21-2010 05:26 PM
The Real - Real Estate Crash is Still to Come salatheel General Discussion 9 12-11-2008 01:22 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Kevin Felts 2006 - 2012,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net


This site is Gunny Approved