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Old 03-14-2013, 04:38 PM
Aaron_Breakspeare Aaron_Breakspeare is offline
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Default Cci 400 small rifle primers for .223



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I've been researching reloading for about the last 8 months but haven't taken the plunge yet due to unavailability of components of late. Today at the LGS, they had CCI 400 small rifle primers in stock. I picked up 4000 of them (max LGS would allow per customer), even though I haven't yet bought a press or dies, just because they were available. While it's my understanding that the CCI 41 is preferred, from a cursory search on the web it sounds like many have had good luck using the CCI 400 on .223 loads. I'd load it on 55gr bullet with 25 gr of H335. I'm aware some say there's a chance of pierced primers due to it being thinner but this seems to be perpetrated by those who've never actually loaded with it. Does anyone in the SB community have any input or did I just waste $140?
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:20 PM
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The primers are the right ones for .223 the H335 powder at 25 grains is just about max, I don't think I would go that high starting off, work up to it, check for pressure signs. JT
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:49 PM
Aaron_Breakspeare Aaron_Breakspeare is offline
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OK thanks. Yes, it would be a good idea for me to work my way up to 25gr, that is my intended max. So are the magnum primers just overkill then for non-NATO loads? I hear everyone talking about the 41's as if they are the gold standard.
Old 03-14-2013, 06:32 PM
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I've gone through (ok my daughter ) a couple thousand rounds of .223 Remington
pressure using CCI400's. No pierced primers in 3 different AR's. The CCI's are some,
if not the, hardest primers made. When toying with pressures closer to 5.56 NATO
is the time I'll use the 41's or 450's.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:47 PM
cooper30 cooper30 is offline
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Do you have a reloading book or reference manual? They are worth their weight in gold. My primary one is Lyman's 49th edition.

I don't use small rifle primers, so I had to look them up. According to Lyman, CC 41 is a mil-spec small rifle primer and CC 450 is a small rifle magnum primer. CC 400 is the regular small rifle primer.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:50 PM
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Also, on the .223 chart for 55gr, the starting load of H335 is 24.3 and the max load is 27.0

Their data shows they used Winchester 7 1/2 small rifle primers which is a mil-spec primer.
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:15 PM
Aaron_Breakspeare Aaron_Breakspeare is offline
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Cooper30, no I haven't got the Lyman's book yet but I plan on getting one and reading it BEFORE I load my first round. Still a ton to learn before I reload, this was just an opportunity snag.
Old 03-14-2013, 09:03 PM
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Another good manual that a lot swear by is "The ABC's of Reloading".
Play it safe, read a lot and wear personal protective equipment.
If possible get someone with more experience to show you.
Above all stay safe.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:49 PM
4509Twain 4509Twain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron_Breakspeare View Post
I've been researching reloading for about the last 8 months but haven't taken the plunge yet due to unavailability of components of late. Today at the LGS, they had CCI 400 small rifle primers in stock. I picked up 4000 of them (max LGS would allow per customer), even though I haven't yet bought a press or dies, just because they were available. While it's my understanding that the CCI 41 is preferred, from a cursory search on the web it sounds like many have had good luck using the CCI 400 on .223 loads. I'd load it on 55gr bullet with 25 gr of H335. I'm aware some say there's a chance of pierced primers due to it being thinner but this seems to be perpetrated by those who've never actually loaded with it. Does anyone in the SB community have any input or did I just waste $140?
Smart man. I've got the opposite problem. I've got a brand new shiny reloading kit that Santa brought and no components to reload with. Great time to become a reloader... terrible time to be trying to find components!
Old 03-14-2013, 10:14 PM
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Default At First I Was Not Going To Answer This

But; right off the bat I learned that CCI 41 primers are military spec. Thank you. I had forgotten which primers were called which number. Now for the tough stuff. IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE SHOOTING CCI 400 PRIMERS IN A AR RIFLE, you do need to pause and think a bit. No disrespect intended or implied. You may create a situation.

If not through a AR15, then case closed, go for it and have fun. But...if through a AR15, one must ask why did CCI make a particular type of primer called "military spec"? Why the 41 primer in addition to the 400 primer? Scary answer not known or understood by others. The AR15 rifle does not have a firing pin spring.

This means that under exact conditions possibly created by handloading, you may, (low probability) experience what is called a "slam fire". Instant machinegun. Your AR15 rifle may shoot more than one shot per trigger pull. This is very bad because innocent people have spent jail time after being nailed by the BATFE or anti-gun law enforcement.

Try this for yourself. Get some military ammo and safely hand rack them thru your AR15. Examine the primers. You will see a small dent. This is normal. It is the firing pin slamming against the round when chambering. With "soft" or sensitive primers; are you that close to having a slam fire using CCI 400 primers in your AR15? Hopefully not.

Probably not. CCI has a rep of making hard primers to start with and I have no idea what difference there in fact is between 400 and 41 primer types. Perhaps you can contact CCI. But...they did market different primer types; some for bolt guns and others for military type firearms. Why did they do so? Is this important? Dunno.

Just bringing it to your attention. Please do not kill the messenger. I no longer own any AR15 or M16 rifles. Sold them off. But, lots of people hand load for the AR and I would hate for them to have big legal issues because some silly primer was not hard enough or seated deeply in the brass. All NFA rules apply. HB of CJ (old coot)

(hundreds of AR15 builds, but long ago and kinda far away; it's ancient history now and nobody cares today anyhow including me soss there you have it)
Old 03-14-2013, 11:07 PM
Francisco d'Anconia Francisco d'Anconia is online now
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I have fired about 1500 rounds of .223 handloads with CCI 400 primers out of my precision AR-15 with no functional issues. I do not find them to be suitable for match ammo though. I have also used FGMM AR primers and Remington small BR primers and I find that they both produce more accurate ammo. However, I load almost entirely match ammo, so my standards are pretty high. For non-match ammo, I think the CCI 400's are perfectly fine and I would not hesitate to use them. I plan on getting an AR-15 carbine within the next six months and handloading non-match ammo for it and I will probably use CCI 400 primers.
Old 03-15-2013, 03:37 AM
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I use Rem 7 1/2 BR primers for when accuracy counts, That said, I consider CCI 400 primers to be a generic standard for what we are talking about here. You made a good purchase. Have loaded many thousands of rounds with them over the last 30 years or so and never had a problem. The WILL ignite ball powers just fine. Having loaded a gazillion of each, I can't actually tell any difference between 400's and 450's. I still have about 4000 that were purchased in 1980 and I load a couple hundred every year from that batch. I can detect no change in performance. I've only been loading for the 5.56/223/AR15 since early '80 but have gained a just little experience since then. If you ever do experience or witness a slam-fire in an AR, it will be caused by dumdass, dirt, or mechanical failure, NOT a primer. In conclusion, you can always find conponants that will work at least good, if not great. You've already found the hardest to come by, so get busy and start loading!!! That is the first step to getting off the Walmart tit! Enjoy
Old 03-15-2013, 10:14 AM
giddyupgo55 giddyupgo55 is offline
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You will have no problems with the primers or the powder. That is the same load I use and it has worked good for me so far.
Old 03-15-2013, 12:34 PM
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Frankly if you can afford it and they are still there I would pick them up regardless of which one you decide to use.
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