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Old 12-27-2012, 06:38 PM
Bellyman Bellyman is offline
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Default Wealth preservation - looking for alternative ideas



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First of all, I'm not wealthy. Not even close.

I have some $ set aside to buy a rural property in cash, no borrowing. That's gonna wipe out much of my small nest egg.

But there's possibly a small monthly income that I could put somewhere.

I do plan to be growing and preserving (and maybe selling) food of various kinds, not so much as an investment as a way of life.

I've read some about gold and silver, and may want to put a portion of extra cash in that direction.

I've read about people buying things offshore, foreign currencies, foreign real estate, foreign companies / stock, that kind of thing. I get nervous about that as I may never actually be able to travel overseas.

I've read about people stocking up on guns and/or ammo as a step toward preserving some wealth. (I'm not much into guns or ammo so am not as keen on heading in that direction.)

What other kinds of things do you think might be good to have invested in should times get tough? What would hold it's value even if cash were to be inflated dramatically? Do I need to be looking at numerous investments of different types, a sort of diversification? (For instance, some silver coins, some vegetable seeds, some basic farm equipment / tools, some fabrics, maybe some canning jar lids, and maybe a large tank of diesel?)

I'm not so much looking at "getting rich" making the right investments. I'm more interested in investing in things that won't lose their value as I expect cash will, and perhaps be fairly easy to trade for things that I need without having to discount them dramatically.


Brian
Old 12-28-2012, 12:48 AM
Namwalker Namwalker is offline
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There is another way of income preservation and that is to purchase assets that can be used to generate additional money.

1: Buy a rental house and reinvest that money (when time permits) to purchase another. This way you are using someone else's money to further you goals.

2: In the same vein, ideas like purchasing a truck to haul goods for someone else. Feeding off that idea would be to hire some to drive that truck thus allowing you to work at what you are good at.

3: You said yourself, learn to produce something on the rural land to sell. ie: goats to make cheese and provide goat milk and meat.

You just have to start thinking about what you can do or want to do and follow up on it.

Gold and silver has always been a way of preserving wealth. They will fluctuate but they will never be worth $0.00. Just watch what you buying points are.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:14 AM
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I invested in agriculture overseas for additional cash flow to augment my retirement. Working good so far.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:17 AM
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Some basics that you may consider as you are already considering buying land .. Tree values go up as they get bigger .. if you can have a nursery for trees indigenous to your area buy plants that are started already, what may be only $6 now could easily be worth $20 (or more if the economy goes to hell in a handbasket) in only 2 years, maybe 3.

Actually renting out small tracts to be farmed for a specific period of time may leave you with pre-made square foot gardens should times get tough (don't be cruel but if they were doing it as a hobby it may not earn it's value (financially)to be maintained if SHTF and they have to drive out to it)

In the same vein as using a vehicle to haul goods.. if you train security dogs or the like then you can do so on your property

Just some small ideas
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellyman View Post

I'm not so much looking at "getting rich" making the right investments. I'm more interested in investing in things that won't lose their value as I expect cash will, and perhaps be fairly easy to trade for things that I need without having to discount them dramatically.


Brian
How about electricity. Build a solar system and use the electricity for your needs today (or feed it to the grid if that's an option in your area) I a shtf scenario you need something to make that electricity tradeable.

Maybe you can recharge empty batteries that other people bring to you, maybe some long cables will let you sell it/trade it with your neighbours....
Old 12-28-2012, 06:36 AM
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Regarding rental properties. I personally like these, but it IS a lot of work and depending on the tenants/damage etc, you may have years where it is cash flow negative to you vs. positive.

A couple of things on the rural land....do you have space for an orchard? A nice stand of fruit trees can provide you with free fruit/ability to sell and trade the excess.

Is there a water source there or the ability to make a pond? If so, stocking it with fish will provide you food which will save money in long run.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:11 AM
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i love RE at these prices for wealth preservation, i found a triplex in reno for 100K for my buddy. i dont know if loans are given w/10% down now a days but i figured he would have his 10K returned to him in the very first year, everything after that is pure gravy.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:06 PM
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Thanks to all for the thoughts. Hadn't thought much about real estate beyond a possible farm / homestead type property. Also, hadn't thought much about possibly some kind of livestock. Had thought briefly about lumber (on the stump) at one time, perhaps worthy of thinking of again if the right property presents itself. Hoping to have a pond, anyway.

Interesting thoughts, for sure, and I appreciate all of them.


Brian
Old 12-28-2012, 10:32 PM
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I wish i had specific ideas that i could give you, but I am pretty well short of them myself.

So I will stick with specific observations:

1. We have a national debt and other unfunded obligtations that is 80% of world GDP. Clearly even if our leaders wanted to pay this through conventional means, we would be unable to do this.

2. These numbers wil get worse by 150% or so in the next decade and a half. We have a spendaholic in the white house backed up by taxaholics from his party in the senate.

3. We have gun grabbers in control of the white house, senate, and soon the supreme court. Remember the second amendment survived its last visit to the supreme court by a 5-4 margin.

The conclusion I come to is that you should avoid taxable activity and easily confiscatable assets.
Old 12-29-2012, 01:09 AM
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30-round gunclips for AR-15s are up to 50$ at the gun-shows... a total rip-off, but there it is.

ARs have doubled in price since 2 weeks ago.

here's where I say 'told you so', but it was a while back.
Wish I had been able to take my own advise...
Old 12-29-2012, 01:16 AM
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The Orchard and lumber trees are 'growing investments ' that you have on hand.. they cannot tax you on unrealized potential so you might consider exotic hardwoods.. Teak would be a great choice, etc.

Cheers
Old 12-29-2012, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Mil View Post
The conclusion I come to is that you should avoid taxable activity and easily confiscatable assets.
If you look at Greece you will see what a Goverenment will try to tax if they are desperate enough:

1. real estate
2. gasoline and heating oil

They will also cut spendings

1. retirement benefits
2. health care benefits
3. wages in the public sector

They will also stop certain public services.

You may think that this is a good thing... until your home burns down and nobody arrives to fight the fire, until the litter rots in your street...
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:27 AM
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When i see litter in my street i pick it up.
Old 12-29-2012, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoycottTheDay View Post
When i see litter in my street i pick it up.
Sure.




Old 12-29-2012, 05:38 AM
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For the last 6 mos I have been buying guns, ammo and high capacity magazines.
Old 12-29-2012, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by SharpDog View Post
For the last 6 mos I have been buying guns, ammo and high capacity magazines.
for wealth preservation?
Old 12-29-2012, 06:04 AM
BoycottTheDay BoycottTheDay is offline
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Sorry, every redneck around here has a front end loader and fleets of class 8 dump trucks, whats your point again?
Old 12-29-2012, 09:22 AM
Bellyman Bellyman is offline
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The second to the last "street" I lived on was a mile and a half long and had about 6 families living there. At times, I wished for more privacy.

The pics I see above is nowhere I want to be anywhere near.

Actually, I am kinda giving more thought to a couple of ideas suggested, some kind of livestock perhaps, and maybe some marketable trees. (And the latter begs the idea of a small sawmill of some kind...)

The thought does continue, though, that regardless of the place where value gets parked, whether it be trees or seeds or guns or cattle or (??), one would be wise to have some diversification. Guns can be targets for confiscation, as can gold, but both are very portable and movable and easy to take to town when you need salt or oil or cloth. Seeds can go bad. Cattle can be killed or suffer drought, disease, etc. Trees can have problems with disease or blight or fire. Stuff can happen, and probably (likely) will.

Something I like about living investments (trees, animals, seeds), they have the potential to grow. Trees can make more trees. Animals can reproduce and make even more animals. Seeds can grow and reproduce making even more seeds. That can't be said about some investments.

Danged criminals in D.C. ... If they hadn't screwed up our US Dollar so badly, I wouldn't need to be looking at ways to keep our little bit of wealth from simply evaporating away before our very eyes.

Sincerely, I've appreciated the thoughts.


Brian
Old 12-29-2012, 10:13 AM
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Brian, I keep looking for alternatives too. The beginnings of an idea (which have their own problems, admittedly) are:

people who have land... rent to a consortium or coop of planters/cattle-owners/investors... to produce a "good"... from which they receive a rent (taxable, yes) - or a portion of the "good". Yes, this arrangement requires legal and written contracts... and good faith and trust, too.

One problem with this type of work-around, is that the IRS reserves the right to put their OWN value on a barter-exchange, for the purposes of determining the taxable amount of it. Granted, they might very well be a little too busy and overwhelmed, dealing with Obamacare... and the other tax changes (which no one knows exactly what they'll be, including the IRS) the country will be faced with THIS YEAR. But this little-known clause already exists in the tax code and you know they'll rediscover it eventually...
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