Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > General Discussion Section > Political News and Discussion
Articles Chat Room Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files



Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-15-2012, 02:01 PM
Eduardo89 Eduardo89 is offline
Hiker
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 593
Thanks: 238
Thanked 1,469 Times in 391 Posts
Default Oregon Mall Shooting Stopped By Licensed Gun Carrier



Advertise Here

The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Eduardo89 For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2012, 02:50 PM
real wowwee's Avatar
real wowwee real wowwee is online now
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: N. Atlanta
Posts: 4,816
Thanks: 9,074
Thanked 8,129 Times in 2,976 Posts
Default

Tough call but maybe seeing him with his gun did spook the gunman to shoot himself.
The Following User Says Thank You to real wowwee For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2012, 03:49 PM
HMM HMM is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 102
Thanks: 4
Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts
Default

Too bad this story isn't all over CNN. That's what we need, more CCW holders!
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to HMM For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2012, 04:10 PM
daddyusmaximus's Avatar
daddyusmaximus daddyusmaximus is offline
Retired Army
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Indiana
Age: 51
Posts: 2,496
Thanks: 2,631
Thanked 4,978 Times in 1,583 Posts
Default

Gunman killed himself. This is why no coverage. Had this nut bag kept on shooting, this kid would get crucified for not taking the shot. Anything to make gun owners look bad.







Then again, as far as I'm concerned, let me be the first to crucify him... he SHOULD have taken the shot.
The Following User Says Thank You to daddyusmaximus For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2012, 04:31 PM
maat's Avatar
maat maat is offline
Frreeedommm
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Oklahoma
Age: 52
Posts: 3,806
Thanks: 3,229
Thanked 6,605 Times in 2,420 Posts
Default

Unfortunately, our laws have us more afraid of helping than not. During chaos, there may be friendly fire while attempting to end a greater tragedy.

There should be reasonble defense for this possibility so that armed citizens can prevent larger events.

It reminds me of the cinema shooting. What if a CC had shot the perp saving numerous people, but struck one accidently. Now, after saving lives, he has to worry about prosecution and lawsuits.

Does not surprise me that this man did not fire. Thankfully, there was not great loss of life, after the fact.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to maat For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2012, 05:07 PM
Chey's Daddy's Avatar
Chey's Daddy Chey's Daddy is offline
silenced
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: texas, gulf coast
Posts: 3,002
Thanks: 4,258
Thanked 3,301 Times in 1,520 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daddyusmaximus View Post
Gunman killed himself. This is why no coverage. Had this nut bag kept on shooting, this kid would get crucified for not taking the shot. Anything to make gun owners look bad.







Then again, as far as I'm concerned, let me be the first to crucify him... he SHOULD have taken the shot.


to me he was a responsible gun owner, not an over zealous person unloading a clip wildly

he did not feel comfortable firing into a crowd of people. that is a hard decision to make and like he partially said and i believe to be true, if he missed and killed another person that was innocent, that could have messed him up to no end.

he did the right thing for his situation and mind, and maybe the gunman saw him and thats why he killed himself, nobody will really know though since the shooter is dead
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Chey's Daddy For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2012, 05:13 PM
Optimist's Avatar
Optimist Optimist is offline
shottist. Brit spelling.
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NW Arkansas
Age: 64
Posts: 7,244
Thanks: 10,970
Thanked 7,327 Times in 3,751 Posts
Default

Consider the Good Samaritan laws, and their effect (or lack thereof) on malpractice suits against medical personnel who stop and render aid.... Until the legal profession is curbed, any action can get you sued, and cost you money that will bankrupt you, be the suit righteous or not. Barratry is a crime that is a felony on the books, but is never seen in the courthouse.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Optimist For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2012, 06:37 PM
Wetwork's Avatar
Wetwork Wetwork is offline
Steel True Blade Straight
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Orygun
Posts: 795
Thanks: 912
Thanked 1,019 Times in 441 Posts
Default

It's a pretty big grasp to say the CHP (Consealed Handgun Permit, it's what we get in Oregon) holder stopped the shooter.

I just read his interview and in his own words, he didn't get his pistol out untill the shooter's rifle jammed. He was busy getting his friends to cover. Just as he got his pistol out and peaked from behind the pillar, the shooter got the rifle back into battery and shot himself. The kid was behind a pillar, protecting his lady friend and her kid, and was peeking out as the situation unfolded. With as much chaos was going on in the food court do you think the shooter noticed from clear across the court some dude hunkered down pointing a pistol in his direction. From cover, mind you. So its a reach. But I like a hero as much as anybody else, especially since the kid was only 22 years old and still had the maturity to not trade shots.

But the kid did great, I'm glad he was there, and he did the right thing. To me in those situations you have two choices, find cover, hid and wait. Or a zig zag charge, to close the reactionary gap till you can't miss. Hard to say what to do, there is no perfect deal. Unless you're there who can say. I figure if you charge, figure its your last.-WW
The Following User Says Thank You to Wetwork For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2012, 07:12 PM
HMM HMM is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 102
Thanks: 4
Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts
Default

pistol vs rifle is never good odds...
Old 12-15-2012, 07:27 PM
BJJ_Grappler's Avatar
BJJ_Grappler BJJ_Grappler is offline
Allergic to Bull****
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 10,681
Thanks: 10,509
Thanked 15,316 Times in 5,426 Posts
Default

Sorry guys, doesn't sound like this guy (although good intentions) did anything to stop the shooter. He had a gun, apparently had a head shot, and ultimately did not take the most important step.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to BJJ_Grappler For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2012, 08:23 PM
Oathkeeper123's Avatar
Oathkeeper123 Oathkeeper123 is offline
*** Bless America
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 401
Thanks: 109
Thanked 415 Times in 193 Posts
Default

I wonder if there is video to back this.
The Following User Says Thank You to Oathkeeper123 For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2012, 08:34 PM
Optimist's Avatar
Optimist Optimist is offline
shottist. Brit spelling.
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NW Arkansas
Age: 64
Posts: 7,244
Thanks: 10,970
Thanked 7,327 Times in 3,751 Posts
Default

There was a CCW permit holder present when Gabby Giffords got shot, remember? He didn't take a shot either. Consider the practicalities of the matter.
The Following User Says Thank You to Optimist For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2012, 09:02 PM
daddyusmaximus's Avatar
daddyusmaximus daddyusmaximus is offline
Retired Army
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Indiana
Age: 51
Posts: 2,496
Thanks: 2,631
Thanked 4,978 Times in 1,583 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMM View Post
pistol vs rifle is never good odds...
He stated in the interview he saw the gunman messing with the charging handle and forward assist. If he could see that, he was close enough. He could have (and SHOULD have) closed the distance while the gun was out of action, and took the shot. More worried about legally covering his own a$$ than helping to stop evil. We got lucky that the shooter offed himself instead of continuing his rampage.


No, it's not about a desire to kill. It's about me not being able to live with myself if I could have done something, and didn't.



All that is necessary for the triumph of evil, is that good men should do nothing. Edmund Burke
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to daddyusmaximus For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2012, 09:06 PM
Optimist's Avatar
Optimist Optimist is offline
shottist. Brit spelling.
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NW Arkansas
Age: 64
Posts: 7,244
Thanks: 10,970
Thanked 7,327 Times in 3,751 Posts
Default

All that keeps good men from acting is (male bovine fecal material) lawsuits, and media demonization..
Old 12-16-2012, 06:12 PM
Observer Observer is offline
This is a great survival forum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Oklahoma again
Posts: 4,565
Thanks: 4,356
Thanked 3,459 Times in 1,776 Posts
Default

But you certainly hear nothing about this in any of the reporting. At least I have not. Goes against their agenda.
Old 12-16-2012, 06:21 PM
tblt44's Avatar
tblt44 tblt44 is offline
NRA member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 139
Thanks: 9
Thanked 218 Times in 73 Posts
Default

I believe if the shooting would have continued shooting he may have than taken a shot.
you nrver know.I know if I was him I wouldn't want a gun man spraying bullets toward my wife and kid.
Again rifle against pistol not a good match
Old 12-16-2012, 06:30 PM
Karnus's Avatar
Karnus Karnus is offline
Vigilant
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Space Coast
Age: 37
Posts: 3,751
Thanks: 4,044
Thanked 5,089 Times in 1,902 Posts
Default

My question is, " is this a gun free zone." ? And will he charged, or lose his license if it is?
Old 12-16-2012, 06:35 PM
Optimist's Avatar
Optimist Optimist is offline
shottist. Brit spelling.
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NW Arkansas
Age: 64
Posts: 7,244
Thanks: 10,970
Thanked 7,327 Times in 3,751 Posts
Default

You know, Karnus, I'd not be surprised if the PTB did try to give this guy a hard time. He has just demonstrated that he's careful of consequences, and they do love to intimidate folks like that.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Optimist For This Useful Post:
Old 12-16-2012, 06:55 PM
crazygary crazygary is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 143
Thanks: 54
Thanked 111 Times in 65 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetwork View Post
It's a pretty big grasp to say the CHP (Consealed Handgun Permit, it's what we get in Oregon) holder stopped the shooter.

I just read his interview and in his own words, he didn't get his pistol out untill the shooter's rifle jammed. He was busy getting his friends to cover. Just as he got his pistol out and peaked from behind the pillar, the shooter got the rifle back into battery and shot himself. The kid was behind a pillar, protecting his lady friend and her kid, and was peeking out as the situation unfolded. With as much chaos was going on in the food court do you think the shooter noticed from clear across the court some dude hunkered down pointing a pistol in his direction. From cover, mind you. So its a reach. But I like a hero as much as anybody else, especially since the kid was only 22 years old and still had the maturity to not trade shots.

But the kid did great, I'm glad he was there, and he did the right thing. To me in those situations you have two choices, find cover, hid and wait. Or a zig zag charge, to close the reactionary gap till you can't miss. Hard to say what to do, there is no perfect deal. Unless you're there who can say. I figure if you charge, figure its your last.-WW
I liked everything in this post except one thing...

A zig zag charge? You watch to many movies. As a combat vet I can promise you that violence of action wins the day. Zig zag charge is so dumb I can't even really put it into words. Your better off standing still and talking slow aimed shots. Most rounds in close combat regardless of weapons involved miss their intended targets. But in a target rich environment, (from the gunman's perspective) especially one in which the gunman doesn't think he will face any armed resistance. Your best bet would be to take advantage of the chaos.

Step 0. Every few months you take out your tattered copy of In the gravest Extreme by Massad F Ayoob to remind yourself of all the risks of concealing and carrying.
Step 1. When the shooting starts, get low and make sure you aren't in his direct line of sight.
Step 2. Ambush from the side or rear.
Step 3. be reasonably certain your shots won't cause collateral
Step 4. begin firing until the target is no longer a threat, but do not go in for an execution as soon as he is no longer a threat. In the eyes of the law you just went from defense to offence and became a murderer.

Sadly if you mess up step 3, you will probably be in a legal world of hurt, and you might be even if you do everything perfect.
The Following User Says Thank You to crazygary For This Useful Post:
Old 12-16-2012, 08:36 PM
PhotonSD's Avatar
PhotonSD PhotonSD is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,062
Thanks: 233
Thanked 544 Times in 330 Posts
Default

This is one of the reasons I use this forum for my news. Of all the reports of the mall shooting there was never any mention of someone who may have interfered with the shooter by pointing a weapon at him. I will not second guess wether the CCW carrier was right or wrong to hold fire, I wasn't there. I just find it infuriating the amount of searching I have to do on the internet to find the truth these days.
The Following User Says Thank You to PhotonSD For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tragic Shooting in Portland Mall, what would you do? kl0an Firearms General Discussion 98 12-19-2012 05:40 AM
Portland, OR Mall Shooting *11 Dec 12* WhiskeySix5 General Discussion 125 12-14-2012 12:32 PM
Developing Story Mall Shooting in Wisconsin Fight4Freedom General Discussion 30 10-23-2012 12:22 PM
$7.50 for a $14.99 New NRAź Licensed Gun Cleaning Kit GearHog GearHog 0 08-04-2011 11:06 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Kevin Felts 2006 - 2012,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net