Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > Survival & Preparedness Forum > Disaster Preparedness General Discussion
Articles Chat Room Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files



Disaster Preparedness General Discussion Anything Disaster Preparedness or Survival Related

Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-08-2012, 03:34 AM
paramilusmc's Avatar
paramilusmc paramilusmc is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Back home in the North
Posts: 5,110
Thanks: 1,488
Thanked 4,367 Times in 2,006 Posts
Default Methane gas from your septic tank for home use?



Advertise Here

Was watching You tube the other day and ran across a couple that had established their homestead and came up with a rather interesting method of energy production.

On top of other methods of energy production, they use the methane gas from their septic system to run their home gas operated appliances. Now this is rather interesting to me because the primary method of cooking for me is via propane, and some of my gas lights are also ran off the same. And a system like this would conserve a rather hefty some of $ over time, and I just love being self sufficient and save $.

So does anyone know how one would go about setting up such a system? I mean would the septic tank create enough pressure to run gas appliances off? How would one run a gas pipe/line from the tank to their appliance?

Please note that I reside in a zone where temperatures often reach -20 degrees F. So almost everything minus the gas line needs to be below the frost line which is 4'. This I see as a semi issue if I don't have anywhere the expanding gas can go, kind of like an expansion chamber. I don't need to deal with explosions on the property.

Any guidance, diagrams, schematics, or videos would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Old 12-08-2012, 06:19 AM
Stillar's Avatar
Stillar Stillar is offline
Be Prepared
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,078
Thanks: 1,209
Thanked 1,390 Times in 568 Posts
Default

I've seen programs in the third world where this was done. They collected the gas in a plastic bladder some how and kept the pressure up by putting a rock or a log on top of the bag. This saved the people in the family from walking for tens of miles looking for fire wood every day.
Old 12-08-2012, 09:29 AM
MikeK's Avatar
MikeK MikeK is offline
Walking methane refinery
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 51
Posts: 48,560
Thanks: 86,764
Thanked 96,774 Times in 31,774 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Member 
Total Awards: 1
Default

I looked into methane production as a source of cooking/heating fuel. It has a lot of benefits. But I was also planning on having some animals too.

Basically, the waste goes into a methane digester where bacteria work it over. Methane is collected, dried, and stored for use. Then this waste can be used as fertilizer.

I don't know if the digestion process would render human waste safe for fertilizer. Composting does, but digestion might not. That would take research. But if it didn't, it could always be sent to the septic tank at that point, or composted further.
__________________
Folks, when starting a thread, please take a moment and consider which forum that thread belongs in. Disaster Preparedness is for disaster preparedness discussions only. There are forums for gun posts, news, politics, general discussion, etc. Please try to start threads in the right forum. This makes the site better for all of us. Thanks.
The Following User Says Thank You to MikeK For This Useful Post:
Old 12-08-2012, 09:41 AM
Common-Sense Common-Sense is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 72
Thanks: 2
Thanked 26 Times in 17 Posts
Default

funny how we can use all the animal poop just fine but human poop is "hazardous"?

WTF IS WRONG WITH US!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
The Following User Says Thank You to Common-Sense For This Useful Post:
Old 12-08-2012, 09:55 AM
MattB4's Avatar
MattB4 MattB4 is offline
Baal Sheeple
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,274
Thanks: 11,877
Thanked 13,721 Times in 5,244 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Common-Sense View Post
funny how we can use all the animal poop just fine but human poop is "hazardous"?

WTF is wrong with us!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
We are the same species. Diseases do not have to cross any species barriers.

Getting usable quantities of methane from a home septic tank is not going to happen. Simple energy equation. Now if you own a pig farm or dairy you can use cogeneration. The only problem is that methane gas is hard on equipment and usually ends up costing more in maintenance than it is worth.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MattB4 For This Useful Post:
Old 12-08-2012, 10:26 AM
bayez bayez is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,024
Thanks: 4,763
Thanked 1,376 Times in 814 Posts
Default

Just don't get a back-flash and blow the door off the outhouse...
The Following User Says Thank You to bayez For This Useful Post:
Old 12-08-2012, 10:30 AM
The Heretic's Avatar
The Heretic The Heretic is online now
To the surface!
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Orygun
Age: 60
Posts: 6,663
Thanks: 550
Thanked 6,831 Times in 2,870 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattB4 View Post
We are the same species. Diseases do not have to cross any species barriers.

Getting usable quantities of methane from a home septic tank is not going to happen. Simple energy equation. Now if you own a pig farm or dairy you can use cogeneration. The only problem is that methane gas is hard on equipment and usually ends up costing more in maintenance than it is worth.
That's my understanding too - that for a lot of manure production it can *maybe* pay for itself, but barely. For a couple of humans? Unlikely.

Local sewer district is using methane production from a treatment plant to run the plant and in a few years they aim to be self-sufficient with regards to energy needs for that plant.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to The Heretic For This Useful Post:
Old 12-08-2012, 10:47 AM
MattB4's Avatar
MattB4 MattB4 is offline
Baal Sheeple
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,274
Thanks: 11,877
Thanked 13,721 Times in 5,244 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Heretic View Post
...

Local sewer district is using methane production from a treatment plant to run the plant and in a few years they aim to be self-sufficient with regards to energy needs for that plant.
Waste water plants are always trying this and it never works out. Many start with a digester that is heated by either methane (from the decay process) or piped in natural gas. Over time the methane side goes into disuse. Mostly from maintenance costs but also from the fact methane production is not a constant. It can be radically affected by shifts in the bacterial process caused by too much or too little nutrients.
Old 12-08-2012, 11:57 AM
Common-Sense Common-Sense is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 72
Thanks: 2
Thanked 26 Times in 17 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattB4 View Post
We are the same species. Diseases do not have to cross any species barriers.
Is there a way for us to spread it in a field to grow something for cattle or such and recycle it that way without it being hazardous to us?
Old 12-08-2012, 12:11 PM
MattB4's Avatar
MattB4 MattB4 is offline
Baal Sheeple
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,274
Thanks: 11,877
Thanked 13,721 Times in 5,244 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Common-Sense View Post
Is there a way for us to spread it in a field to grow something for cattle or such and recycle it that way without it being hazardous to us?
Yes. You just have to ensure that cross contamination does not happen like getting insects/rats other animals to distribute pathogens. Mostly that means covering the material with clean soil. Or you can compost. Proper composting will raise the temperature high enough to destroy pathogens
The Following User Says Thank You to MattB4 For This Useful Post:
Old 12-08-2012, 12:14 PM
rgswaim rgswaim is offline
Trapper
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 990
Thanks: 43
Thanked 1,587 Times in 474 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Basically, the waste goes into a methane digester where bacteria work it over. Methane is collected, dried, and stored for use. Then this waste can be used as fertilizer.
Since methane is a gas just how does one dry it and then store it for later use?
Old 12-08-2012, 12:42 PM
MikeK's Avatar
MikeK MikeK is offline
Walking methane refinery
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 51
Posts: 48,560
Thanks: 86,764
Thanked 96,774 Times in 31,774 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Member 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgswaim View Post
Since methane is a gas just how does one dry it and then store it for later use?
I don't remember the details on the driers, but you can make them yourself. Might have been as simple as passing the gas through silica gel, which can be dried out over and over. But I don't remember offhand. It's been nearly 20 years since I researched it.

As for storing, a lot of the small tinkerers were simply pumping it into inner tubes so that it would be under pressure. Inner tubes are not going to last in long term storage, so I'd want a more permanent solution. But they're a cheap way to get started and learn the ropes before investing more heavily in a better setup.
__________________
Folks, when starting a thread, please take a moment and consider which forum that thread belongs in. Disaster Preparedness is for disaster preparedness discussions only. There are forums for gun posts, news, politics, general discussion, etc. Please try to start threads in the right forum. This makes the site better for all of us. Thanks.
Old 12-08-2012, 08:09 PM
Pawiscoming's Avatar
Pawiscoming Pawiscoming is online now
Born to prep
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: nc IN.
Posts: 2,390
Thanks: 624
Thanked 2,452 Times in 1,039 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Thread 
Total Awards: 1
Default

The problem with this is in the way that septic systems/plumbing are built in this country.

To get methane from a septic tank you can only put feces and some water in the tank. If you put gray water, TP, tampons, wet wipes, urine or any other nonfecal matter.
Old 12-09-2012, 06:39 AM
paramilusmc's Avatar
paramilusmc paramilusmc is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Back home in the North
Posts: 5,110
Thanks: 1,488
Thanked 4,367 Times in 2,006 Posts
Default

Ok so tracking on the digester. If I did set something like this up I would add some vegetable matter to promote bacteria growth. I have been watching Youtube and see there are ways to prevent flameback through the system. Pressure is an issue, and it it wasn't for the harsh winters then I could see how to set this up. But I will not set this up in the basement so underground is the only option. So somehow I have to set up a underground tank that can take the pressure.
Old 12-23-2012, 08:02 AM
navyboy navyboy is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ohio
Posts: 17
Thanks: 3
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

China and India and South America have all been using Biogas for years, China uses human and animal waste and they all can take biodegradable things like toilet paper and plants, china actually lines the bottom of the pit with plant material. They pipe the Biogas directly to the house to cook with and fuel gas lights. Biogas is about 60% methane and 40% CO2 with Hydrogen sulfide and moisture thrown in which is why its hard on generators. It must by purified by removing these, the cheapest way is to bubble the gas through water to remove the CO2 and H2S which can also be removed with a rusted steel sponge. The water is then dehydraded usually through silica gel. you now have around 98% methane with the same BTU's as natural gas.
Old 12-23-2012, 08:04 AM
navyboy navyboy is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ohio
Posts: 17
Thanks: 3
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

One thing I forgot is the digesting process kill the bad bacteria and should be used as a fertilizer, both the liqued that you get each day as you feed it and the solids when it is cleaned out.
Old 12-23-2012, 08:24 AM
HomeDefense's Avatar
HomeDefense HomeDefense is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 72
Thanks: 7
Thanked 99 Times in 38 Posts
Default

I read a while back that most methane gas projects that were started back in the 1970s and 1980s failed because methane gas is very corrosive. It ruins engines and pipes.

Does anyone know how to neutralize the corrosive nature? Does the drying process do this?
Old 12-23-2012, 09:02 AM
Spade Spade is offline
Recent Blog:
Hiker
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: North Central Arkansas
Age: 72
Posts: 619
Thanks: 0
Thanked 706 Times in 307 Posts
Default

My wife thinks I generate enough methane gas that I should consider attaching a holding tank or plastic bag to my trousers. At times I could also use some kind of dryer.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Spade For This Useful Post:
Old 12-23-2012, 05:51 PM
EFIsuicide's Avatar
EFIsuicide EFIsuicide is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Suburban Chicago
Posts: 57
Thanks: 11
Thanked 68 Times in 31 Posts
Default

If your methane blower falls into the tank, would that be SHTF or FHTS?
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to EFIsuicide For This Useful Post:
Old 12-23-2012, 10:25 PM
fullmetal's Avatar
fullmetal fullmetal is offline
Prepared
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: green bay, wi
Age: 24
Posts: 367
Thanks: 896
Thanked 390 Times in 189 Posts
Default

look in the readers digest book "back to basics" it has plans for a methane digester, combined that with the plans for a composting toilet might work, thats what i plan to try
The Following User Says Thank You to fullmetal For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Compressing Methane/Natural Gas wildartstech DIY - Do It Yourself 3 02-15-2012 11:22 PM
Methane gas. Longshanks Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 3 10-27-2011 04:49 PM
Methane Be Dangerous Carne Frio Jokes, Humor & Music 1 12-11-2010 08:16 AM
Are propane tanks (gas grill type) compatible with a home oven? Dirt Fisher Urban Survival 51 02-04-2010 12:55 AM
Know anything about Methane? Earthmother Farming, Gardening & Homesteading 9 09-02-2009 12:46 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Kevin Felts 2006 - 2012,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net