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Old 10-03-2012, 11:58 PM
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Inazone Inazone is offline
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Default What ammo to make best use of 9mm carbine?



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I decided at some point that 9mm was going to be my primary caliber, and earlier this year added the illustrious Hi-Point 995TS carbine to share ammo with my 9mm handguns. My preference for defensive handgun rounds is 124-grain (including some +P) although I do keep some 115- and 147-grain ammo on-hand as well. However, I find myself wondering which round would take advantage of the carbine's characteristics. I've heard/read many different opinions on the pros and cons of pistol-caliber carbines, but since I already own the gun at this point, I'm not looking for a debate on this gun's merits. Rather, I want to narrow down what ammo would serve me best in a defensive role using the carbine.

I've fired everything through the carbine that I've tried with the various handguns, and honestly haven't developed a preference. I have plenty of 115-grain JHPs due to price and availability, but would a 147-grain bullet get any accuracy or penetration benefits when fired from something with a longer barrel? Is it worthwhile to use +P rounds in a carbine?

Again, I'm not looking to discuss the merits of pistol-caliber carbines, and since I have 9mm handguns for carry and "nightstand" guns, this is for the purpose of an in-between weapon; I have .22LR and .223/5.56 rifles for other purposes.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:26 AM
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I know the following site is using pistols for the comparison, but you'll get a good idea what the different rounds can do. I would stick with the 124gr in the rifle they are pretty decent.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/9x19mm.htm
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:28 AM
RogueSpear2023 RogueSpear2023 is offline
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I have always like heavy and slow, over fast and light, 124gr would be a good compromise, but I would still like 147gr, +P would always be helpful.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:32 AM
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The Hi point can take hotter ammo than most would run thru a pistol. And will get more advantage out of hotter ammo. If you don't reload then your going to be buying what is offered at stores.

I like 147 gr HP myself, but reload. The golden sabre ammo is 25$ for 20, but I can buy the components and make close to a hundred for that price. I am going the other way with a carbine and looking for subsonic.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:10 AM
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you can always reload 9mm for real cheap... i would suggest using blue dot as it is a medium burn rate pistol powder... it will really work well for the carbine length barrel putting out some good energy at the muzzle... i prefer 115 grain montana gold JHPs cuz i bought a case of 4000 of them and they are more cost effective than heavier bullets, plus i like their accuracy.
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:38 AM
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Extra mags, extra mags, extra mags. HiPoint also offers a nice two magazine carrier that mounts into the butt and has a deal on it when purchased with 2 mags.
Old 10-04-2012, 10:10 AM
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You will gain a couple hundred feet per second with any round used with the 9mm carbine. Roughly 25fps per inch of barrel gained over a handgun, with 9mm. In a .45acp carbine very little would be gained due to it being such a low pressure round. With the 9mm if you used the lightest grain available it would really be moving coming out of the barrel. Probably be close to a .357mag handgun ballistics. I have only shot handloads out of my 995ts. I have a chrono but haven't checked that guns numbers.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:13 AM
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Also promag makes a 15 round mag for that gun. Sportsman guide sells them for $20ish. They have had the kinks worked out from the first design.
Old 10-04-2012, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mefunkymxw View Post
you can always reload 9mm for real cheap... i would suggest using blue dot as it is a medium burn rate pistol powder... it will really work well for the carbine length barrel putting out some good energy at the muzzle... i prefer 115 grain montana gold JHPs cuz i bought a case of 4000 of them and they are more cost effective than heavier bullets, plus i like their accuracy.
Sure would be fun to come up with a nice custom load for one. I would agree with the blue dot may be the best route. I would have a blast trying everything though. I like the 124-147 at-least in my xdm.
Old 10-04-2012, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falloutmike View Post
You will gain a couple hundred feet per second with any round used with the 9mm carbine. Roughly 25fps per inch of barrel gained over a handgun, with 9mm. In a .45acp carbine very little would be gained due to it being such a low pressure round. With the 9mm if you used the lightest grain available it would really be moving coming out of the barrel. Probably be close to a .357mag handgun ballistics. I have only shot handloads out of my 995ts. I have a chrono but haven't checked that guns numbers.
Chrono tests don't bear that out. Some rounds don't gain anything. Some gain a little. But only the hottest loads gain much more than 100-150 FPS in the carbine. It would really benefit from a slower powder. There just isn't enough pressure to keep the bullet accelerating down that much barrel.

I've done my own chrono work on my Camp 9 and there are a few others on the net where you can check what loads got what increase.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Chrono tests don't bear that out. Some rounds don't gain anything. Some gain a little. But only the hottest loads gain much more than 100-150 FPS in the carbine. It would really benefit from a slower powder. There just isn't enough pressure to keep the bullet accelerating down that much barrel.

I've done my own chrono work on my Camp 9 and there are a few others on the net where you can check what loads got what increase.
And thats where the fun starts. Slower burning powers and a chrono would be fun, but you really only need to look at what they use in 9mm subs will point you in the right direction.
Old 10-04-2012, 07:06 PM
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Mike, I realize every round doesn't gain that or anything. The 25fps per inch is a number I've read from a couple of different places. I've seen gains in guns with my loads buy I do load some pretty hot loads. I have not chronoed my 995ts though. .45acp carbines basically gain nothing.
Old 10-04-2012, 09:25 PM
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The 9mm in a rifle is not that good for hunting or protection. But if it is all you got then its all you got
Old 10-04-2012, 10:58 PM
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Just to clarify, my expectations are for something to fill the gap between a .223/5.56 rifle (with or without scope) and a 9mm handgun. I have the 15-round ProMags for the Hi-Point, and several different brands of ammo at my disposal. This gun is definitely not picky about ammo, and while I realize that there are many options out there for dedicated self-defense rounds, this isn't my primary defensive weapon for two reasons. First, it's not concealable, so it doesn't surpass a handgun in that role. Second, it doesn't have the range or accuracy of a proper rifle. I have accepted these limitations, which leaves me looking for JHP ammo that will "take over" for a rifle at ranges where a handgun isn't practical.

As it stands now, my budget has allowed me to stock up on the following: 115-grain Remington UMC as my general-purpose "stockpile" ammo, 124-grain Golden Saber (some +P) and 124-grain Fiocchi XTP for SD/HD, and small amounts of 147-grain Hydra-Shok and 9mm NATO (FMJ) that I basically bought on a whim. All of my shooting with the carbine thus far has been at 50 yards or less, either with iron sights or a red dot, and from a reliability standpoint, everything has functioned well. However, this is hardly a scientific environment - I'm not not equipped to compare expansion and velocity - so I essentially buy whatever ammo my guns fire reliably.

Given my current ammo selection, which of them would make the most sense as my go-to carbine round?
Old 10-05-2012, 08:44 AM
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If this gun is for the range I would be shooting the cheap stuff. I load mine pretty light for range shooting anyways(124gr bullet). Its easier and faster to stay on target. I run 147 hydra shock for self denfence.
Old 10-05-2012, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falloutmike View Post
Also promag makes a 15 round mag for that gun. Sportsman guide sells them for $20ish. They have had the kinks worked out from the first design.
Only problem is.........the use of them voids the warranty. They "claim" they can screw up the feed ramps. I think it's hogwash.
Old 10-07-2012, 10:30 PM
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my camp 9 marlin has a definite preference for the Remmy golden sabre+P loads I make up.. as do the kel-tec (in particular) of a nephew and the hi-point of another (his wifey snatched it after their first range trip w/it).
the kel-tec manual actually states 'performance ammo recommended'
it's sturdier IMO than first look-over would lead you to believe, a very good choice for a female and/or newby shooter. some real wallop @50yds.
needs a better front sight to really optimize accuracy IMO.
Old 10-08-2012, 12:34 PM
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Woodyp, what they dont know doesn't hurt them.
Old 10-09-2012, 02:33 PM
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http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html


A brief look over seems to suggest the lighter bullet loads seem to get the best gain in performance

It also shows something else, that peak performance is typically somewhere between 16 and 17 inches, by 18 inches it actually is beginning to lose velocity
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinfire View Post
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html


A brief look over seems to suggest the lighter bullet loads seem to get the best gain in performance

It also shows something else, that peak performance is typically somewhere between 16 and 17 inches, by 18 inches it actually is beginning to lose velocity
A friend brought this up in conversation, and it's what got me thinking about my ammo choices. The carbine has a 16.5" barrel, compared to my largest 9mm handgun which has a 5" barrel. On one hand, the longer barrel would give heavier 147-grain rounds the highest muzzle velocity they're capable of, plus the greater weight carries with it more momentum. On the other hand, 115-grain rounds would REALLY be moving, and the additional velocity might add a little more range. Since the three ammo types I have the most of are UMC 115gr JHP, Hydra-Shok 147gr JHP and NATO (roughly +P) 124gr FMJs, I guess I have the bases covered. While I generally don't plan on employing FMJs for defensive purposes, they are still viable if it comes to that.
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