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Old 07-11-2012, 10:45 PM
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Default STD bcg vs Nickel Boron vs LMT Enhanced BCG



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Hey All,

I am building an AR and am wondering if anybody has had experiance with Nickel Boron(Nib X, Failzero,WMD, Spikes Tactical) or the LMT Enhanced BCGs. Are they worth $100 more? I have shot plenty of STD phosphate finish and I have a buddy with a chrome BCG and it is easier to clean and is has a noticeably smoother action. Thats all I really know beyond the standard bcg. Anybody have any knowledge you can enlighten me with?


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Old 07-12-2012, 04:11 AM
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This seems to be a more emotional topic than technical one, because people want to justify where their $100 or so went.

My take on it?

All of them work. All of them need lubricant. I have heard of grumblings about LMT's "enhanced" stuff being over-sprung, etc. If I bought anything, it would be Fail Zero. They use correct contractor mil-spec BCG's and then apply a coating. However, honestly, and I hate to whore things around like this, Froglube does a pretty good job of allowing you to just wipe parts functionally clean. I know that chrome-plated is very nice (my M1014 has a chrome bolt, nice and I like it! Same with the bore/chamber) for "white-glove" cleaning, but the standard phosphate BCG is functionally just fine.

You can find Youtube videos of Nicken Boron BCG's locking up, and all sorts of "he said she said" type back-forth on the topic.

In the end, I went with the Phosphate setup that came in my Noveske and have not opted to change it, because it has not opted to fail.
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:56 AM
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Welcome Ranger- We just waged this war recently in another thread, but since you're new around here: I like nickel boron. The stuff is SLICK. It leaves almost no pores in the surface of the bolt and bolt carrier for carbon to stick to. Cycling the BCG by hand is noticeably smoother with the N-B coated BCG. Carbon wipes off easily compared to baked on carbon with phospated carriers.

Now, with that said: does it REALLY make a difference? No, not really. You can get away with a lot less lube with a nickel boron coated BCG due to the lubricity of the coating, but lube is still a good idea. Oil damn-near just runs right off of nickel boron tho, kind of like oil on a teflon pan, so I think grease is probably the best way to go with a coated BCG.

Chrome carriers are also great. A lot of our old training M16s had chrome carriers and the carbon would just flake right off because the surface was so smooth.

In the end, it's really what your willing to pay for. I think it's worth the money. Probably just as many around here think it's not. Try to find someone with a coated carrier for you to check out and see if you think it's worth it.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:56 AM
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Thanks guys,
Paladin I think my post on the other thread was a little unclear I made another reply to try and clear it up a little. I think good gear is VERY important, I just dont think there are very many ARs brands that put out a truly bad product. I think I am going to get a fail zero. Why not I guess. The only thing that concerns me is that they are marketing it as a "lube free bcg" I think that is just a bad idea no matter how you look at it.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post

In the end, I went with the Phosphate setup that came in my Noveske and have not opted to change it, because it has not opted to fail.
If it ain't broke don't fix it. If it's working, I'd wait to see how long it takes to break the one you have. It may be money better spent if you bought a couple of spare bolts for less money......but that's just me.

Most heavy users, competitors, trainers and operators seem to think that running the BCG wet is all you need. BUT, if you're trying to keep your cleaning time down and to do less of it maybe an upgrade to a 'slick' BCG is your thing.

Old 07-12-2012, 11:22 AM
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If it ain't broke don't fix it. If it's working, I'd wait to see how long it takes to break the one you have. It may be money better spent if you bought a couple of spare bolts for less money......but that's just me.

Most heavy users, competitors, trainers and operators seem to think that running the BCG wet is all you need. BUT, if you're trying to keep your cleaning time down and to do less of it maybe an upgrade to a 'slick' BCG is your thing.

The flip side is that parkerized finishes absorb/hold lubricant while many of these others do not.

I order a spare bolt whenever I order an M4.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:36 AM
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i have to say...

Standard BCG - with Frog lube.

Seems to be less sensitive to lack of lubrication than almost any other system i've tried.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:00 PM
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I use standard FA BCG's, run them wet and clean often. I have managed to keep my weapons running in some pretty hostile environments both for my personal arms and government weapons.

Go with what your gut tells you is right for you.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
The flip side is that parkerized finishes absorb/hold lubricant while many of these others do not.

I order a spare bolt whenever I order an M4.
Ditto on the bolt order.

After rereading my post it could leave the impression that I was somehow advocating an upgrade. In fact I'm suggesting he forgo the fancy finished BCG and buy more bolts, if the parkerized finish was a bad idea it would have been phased out decades ago.

BTW, my comment on the BCG breaking was a joke, I've never heard of a Bolt Carrier breaking, a bolt yes, but not the carrier.

A 'fancy' bolt finish may help in making for a shorter cleaning session, and may look nice, but it gives one a false sense of security that they don't need as much lubrication. The only time I could see a BCG being over-lubricated is if your BCG oil is splashing onto the guy shooting next to you. ....
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc_Shane View Post
I use standard FA BCG's, run them wet and clean often. I have managed to keep my weapons running in some pretty hostile environments both for my personal arms and government weapons.

Go with what your gut tells you is right for you.
I can't say I have never had issues with standard bcg's. In sustained windy dusty enviornments even field striping it to clean it does more harm than good sometimes. Its better to squrit in some clp and hope for the best. Would a nickel boron bcg be better? I don't know. I know the standard sets the standard, but are there any tangable upgrades that a nickel boron gives or is it just the 'latest and greatest' cool look. To me thats not worth $100.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fNoRanger24 View Post
I can't say I have never had issues with standard bcg's. In sustained windy dusty enviornments even field striping it to clean it does more harm than good sometimes. Its better to squrit in some clp and hope for the best. Would a nickel boron bcg be better? I don't know. I know the standard sets the standard, but are there any tangable upgrades that a nickel boron gives or is it just the 'latest and greatest' cool look. To me thats not worth $100.
Here is a decent write up on the BCG I just bought for my M4. It's sold by Aim Surplus. It's a Carpenter 158, MPI tested, shot peened, etc. auto BCG that is coated by WMD Guns (they split from Fail Zero a while back). The complete group is $149. Tough to beat that. I'll let you guys know what I think when it comes in.

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.ht...&f=12&t=545790
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:57 PM
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Ok, as promised... My RGuns nickel boron coated carrier group came today. Initial impression is great! Finish is very smooth and slick. The only negative I found is the staking on the gas key cap screws could have been a little deeper. But, it's sufficient to keep the screws from loosening up. Here are some pics. Sorry, I am no photographer and I took them with my phones camera.

I'll run some rounds through the M4 this weekend with the carrier bone-dry and see how it performs. Pics of carrier shown with PSA phosphated carrier for comparison...







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Old 07-20-2012, 04:54 PM
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I want to know more about the smiley face= does it reduce weight adequately, allow lubricants to channel better, how about the CDI factor of it..........

Don't bore us with the gun cycles dry, extracts great stuff.......... we need the important info.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc_Shane View Post
I want to know more about the smiley face= does it reduce weight adequately, allow lubricants to channel better, how about the CDI factor of it..........

Don't bore us with the gun cycles dry, extracts great stuff.......... we need the important info.
Hahahaha!!!! Good point! I forgot to mention, mine doesn't have a smiley face. To tell the truth, I was pleasantly surprised by that. So, apparently they aren't doing that anymore?

They have made some changes to the carrier since the pics I've seen in the past, because the forward assist notches on this carrier are that same as my PSA carrier. In the pics I saw of the carrier before I bought it there were fewer notches than a standard carrier. This one is identical to any other phosphated M16 carrier, with the exception of the beautiful nickel boron coating.
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:48 AM
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I can not tell enough difference between chrome and standard BCG's, to justify the cost.
I shot about 1000 rounds one Saturday awhile back and the standard looked great, I just soaked it overnight in solvent and it is like new.
I have had the chrome BCG for over 20 years and it does clean easy with a rag on the outside portion, however in the chamber where the bolt slides inside the carrier is still hard to clean, unless you have some type of solvent.



Old 08-08-2012, 06:10 PM
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Thanks Paladin,

Looks Great. Tough decision, I'm buying a bcg for my build tomarrow and its between BCM and Fail zero.... My head hurts from all the choices.
Old 08-08-2012, 07:18 PM
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I have the Failzero kit in my AR. Zero lube and zero malfunctions after 500 rounds, no cleaning. One tip though, the extractor spring is weak, throw it away and replace with one from Bravo Company or similar.
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:23 PM
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Get a BCM BCG and call it a day.
Old 08-09-2012, 01:29 AM
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I have the Failzero kit in my AR. Zero lube and zero malfunctions after 500 rounds, no cleaning. One tip though, the extractor spring is weak, throw it away and replace with one from Bravo Company or similar.
Thanks Morden! I haven't had a chance to run any rounds thru mine with the new bcg yet. Between work and trying to get all my stuff moved to the new house, I don't have any time to get some trigger-time. Hopefully mine performs as well. I might get some rounds thru it this weekend. Fingers crossed...
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