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Old 05-10-2012, 08:09 PM
MountainRecluse MountainRecluse is offline
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Question JGIG and "Set-Apart"...



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JGIG,

Wanted to address a comment you made in another thread how Torah was to "seperate" and set-apart Israel in the OT and that is not the intention of the New Covenant.

I beg to differ.

There are numerous passages in the NT where Christians are called to be "holy" (set-apart). Where they are told to "be seperate". You seemed to imply the opposite and that we are supposed to "blend in" with unbelievers.

Let's discuss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JGIG View Post
Keeping Old Covenant Law in the era of the New Covenant is fringe.

Kinda like driving a horse and buggy on the Audubon .

The commandments that God expects us to keep in Christ are not Mosaic Covenant Law. That was a set of commands for a certain people for a certain purpose for a certain time.

Every commandment that God requires of us in Christ is fulfilled by loving one another.

You can do the rest of that Old Covenant stuff if you choose, but it serves to isolate you (which is in part what Law was designed to do) from ministering the Gospel to the world, which is what Jesus commanded us to do. The Old was set aside and made obsolete with the establishing of the New in part so that the Gospel could go forth to all tribes and nations.

-JGIG
Old 05-10-2012, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainRecluse View Post
JGIG,

Wanted to address a comment you made in another thread how Torah was to "seperate" and set-apart Israel in the OT and that is not the intention of the New Covenant.

I beg to differ.

There are numerous passages in the NT where Christians are called to be "holy" (set-apart). Where they are told to "be seperate". You seemed to imply the opposite and that we are supposed to "blend in" with unbelievers.

Let's discuss.
Cut and dried.

2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
Old 05-10-2012, 09:09 PM
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Oh Good Lord yet another torah thread....
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:23 PM
MountainRecluse MountainRecluse is offline
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Oh Good Lord yet another torah thread....
Well I felt it was worth its own thread and wanted to get a clearer answer.

Feel free not to participate.

Peace and blessings upon you, friend.
Old 05-10-2012, 10:08 PM
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Hehe...

You mean sanctified, like this little set apart nugget:

1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.



.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:20 PM
MountainRecluse MountainRecluse is offline
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Hehe...

You mean sanctified, like this little set apart nugget:

1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.



.
I only know certain "creatures" which have been "sanctified by the Word of God" for consumption.....

Unless you're equating your personal prayers over your Xmass ham equal with the Word of God....

Ah boy. Man I was blinded by traditions of men! I digress......SET-APART....
Old 05-10-2012, 10:23 PM
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I only know certain "creatures" which have been "sanctified by the Word of God" for consumption.....

Unless you're equating your personal prayers over your Xmass ham equal with the Word of God....

Ah boy. Man I was blinded by traditions of men! I digress......SET-APART....
Nope, no Christmas ham in my house.

Naw, this whole set of verses in Paul's letter is a warning against the Romish system. The foods we eat as believers are sanctified by the word of God (Leviticus 11); they are "of God" after all...

.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:25 PM
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When I first saw this thread, it had five stars, and now it only has three. I'm gonna bump it a bit. (Wonderwhovoteditdownthesaint)...

.
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:01 AM
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sprkymrk sprkymrk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainRecluse View Post
JGIG,

Wanted to address a comment you made in another thread how Torah was to "seperate" and set-apart Israel in the OT and that is not the intention of the New Covenant.

I beg to differ.

There are numerous passages in the NT where Christians are called to be "holy" (set-apart). Where they are told to "be seperate". You seemed to imply the opposite and that we are supposed to "blend in" with unbelievers.

Let's discuss.
Any chance you can reference the quote of JGIG's you are addressing? I just want to see what was actually said before I post any replies.
Old 05-11-2012, 10:18 AM
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Oh Good Lord yet another torah thread....
And yet, here you are.... and OM too.

But you don't care about others teaching Torah... nope, not one bit!
Old 05-11-2012, 11:18 AM
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1 Peter 1
As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance, but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

What is this?

Obedience (I wonder to what exactly), and be holy because He is holy.

Seems like Peter is teaching Torah . . .

Apparently Peter did not read the letter to the Galatians. What a legalistic Judaizer.

Old 05-11-2012, 12:26 PM
MountainRecluse MountainRecluse is offline
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Originally Posted by sprkymrk View Post
Any chance you can reference the quote of JGIG's you are addressing? I just want to see what was actually said before I post any replies.
It's in the OP now.

I'd like to add that the "horse and buggy" will be back on the road come the return of Jesus.....in the Kingdom....on the New Heaven and New Earth.....
Old 05-11-2012, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MountainRecluse View Post
JGIG,

Wanted to address a comment you made in another thread how Torah was to "seperate" and set-apart Israel in the OT and that is not the intention of the New Covenant.
I didn't get that indication from her post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JGIG
You can do the rest of that Old Covenant stuff if you choose, but it serves to isolate you (which is in part what Law was designed to do) from ministering the Gospel to the world, which is what Jesus commanded us to do. The Old was set aside and made obsolete with the establishing of the New in part so that the Gospel could go forth to all tribes and nations.
What I took away from her post was that she (and I) believe that the Mosaic Law was given specifically for Israel, and by holding to the Mosaic Law it does not "open" the gospel to others. It still seems like something only for Israel.
Old 05-11-2012, 09:46 PM
MountainRecluse MountainRecluse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprkymrk View Post
I didn't get that indication from her post.



What I took away from her post was that she (and I) believe that the Mosaic Law was given specifically for Israel, and by holding to the Mosaic Law it does not "open" the gospel to others. It still seems like something only for Israel.
Well in your mind.....how do you rationalize one set of rules for Israel (which you understand only referring to Jews), and then a whole other set for Gentiles?

I thought no Jew or Gentile here?

And you already know my view that we are ALL grafted into Israel....Jew or not.
Old 05-11-2012, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by temu View Post
Cut and dried.

2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
Don't forget

Luke 12:32
“Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:10 AM
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sprkymrk sprkymrk is offline
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Well in your mind.....how do you rationalize one set of rules for Israel (which you understand only referring to Jews), and then a whole other set for Gentiles?

I thought no Jew or Gentile here?

And you already know my view that we are ALL grafted into Israel....Jew or not.
We've been over this before, but that is off topic and not addressing the OP.

You said that by her post you thought she was saying that the New Testament did not call Christians to be "called out" and "set apart" from the rest of the world.

My opinion is that she did not say that, as I addressed in my previous post.

I'm not dodging your questions by any means, just trying to stick to the OP because I think it's important that people not get the wrong impression of what she said. I'd hate for the OP to stand as-is because I think you misunderstood her point (like we all do at times with each other).

If she sees this thread and cares to correct me, you, or both of us in what she meant (or confirm) then great. I'll drop her a PM with a link to this thread.
Old 05-12-2012, 11:20 AM
MountainRecluse MountainRecluse is offline
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We've been over this before, but that is off topic and not addressing the OP.

You said that by her post you thought she was saying that the New Testament did not call Christians to be "called out" and "set apart" from the rest of the world.

My opinion is that she did not say that, as I addressed in my previous post.

I'm not dodging your questions by any means, just trying to stick to the OP because I think it's important that people not get the wrong impression of what she said. I'd hate for the OP to stand as-is because I think you misunderstood her point (like we all do at times with each other).

If she sees this thread and cares to correct me, you, or both of us in what she meant (or confirm) then great. I'll drop her a PM with a link to this thread.
No. She did not "say that" word for word nor did I imply that she literally say those words.

That was what was implied in my mind. JGIG does a great job of saying things without actually saying them.

Matthew 5

37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.


If the New Covenant is NOT like Torah where it's purpose was to "call-out" believers and "separate" them or make them "set-apart" or "isolate" from the lawless nations as she did say....

Torah was never designed or intended to "isolate" Israel. It was the like of the Pharisees and such who turned the Law into what Jesus called them out on.

Matthew 23

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.


The Kingdom of Heaven is HIS Kingdom.....not a kingdom of men.

.....my conclusion is the only one you can come to. In my mind at least. I will wait for clarrification....
Old 05-12-2012, 11:39 AM
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No. She did not "say that" word for word nor did I imply that she literally say those words.

That was what was implied in my mind.
And that is exactly what I said you said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprkymrk
You said that by her post you thought she was saying
Not trying to put words in your mouth bro, hope you didn't take it that way.

As for the rest of your post it's simply your opinion, and we all have opinions of what others say and do.

I dropped her a PM so we'll see if she wants to chime in next time she logs in.
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:12 PM
MountainRecluse MountainRecluse is offline
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One sees "isolate"...

....I see "holy". Being set-apart does not mean one is an isolationist. It means one becomes the example for all others to see and invites them into the set-apart fold.

John 1

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Old 05-12-2012, 01:12 PM
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One sees "isolate"...

....I see "holy". Being set-apart does not mean one is an isolationist. It means one becomes the example for all others to see and invites them into the set-apart fold.

John 1

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
I agree, but what others see you (and I) set apart from is not always the picture we are trying to convey.

I try to stay away from worldly things (dirty jokes, don't own a TV, don't cuss, don't drink alcohol, don't smoke, etc.) and I try to stay near to Godly things (worship and fellowship with other believers, read the bible daily, pray often, read/pray with my wife and children, encourage others, help others in need, etc.).

Others see the way I live and while many think I'm a fanatic nut-case, others respect it. So to some we are "set apart" while to others we are "isolated". I am trying to be an example and ambassador of Christ, not Israel.

You can say "I don't care what others think, I'm just doing what the bible says" and that's fine. Me too. Obviously you and I just disagree on what it tell us to do.
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