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Old 05-07-2012, 10:05 AM
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Question How can i calculate MOA for a pellet rifle. with a 1/4" Moa scope?



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i think i understand how MOA works but i can't seem to figure out how to convert it to clicks when using closer ranges. is there a general equation i can use for this.

i have a Daisy powerline 35 so i don't have a lot of power. i will use .177 cal wadcutter pellets. maximum FPS would be 605 FPS and max range would be 265Yds with this.

lets say i i am Zero'ed at 100 yds and there is no wind. i have a scope where l click equals 1/4" MOA at 100 yds. so if i wanted to hit a target at 200 yds would i need to raise the elevation turret 4 clicks?

my main target will be grey squirrels. where i live, they are usually within 30 or less yards off me when i shoot. how do i calculate the clicks downward for closer distances? if I'm zeroed at 100 yds. is there a general equation? i know the shot group for one MOA at 30 yds when zeroed at 100yds is a 3/10" group. how many clicks will that be? i mainly want to know closer ranges under 100 yds. even under 50yds.
Old 05-07-2012, 10:17 AM
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1 moa is approx. 1 inch at 100 yards. 1/2 at 50 yards, 1/4 inch at 25 yards, etc........
Old 05-07-2012, 10:29 AM
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What size groups at 265 yards?
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:33 AM
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The replies so far are evidence that no one is actually reading the posts before they answer. That and/or they know absolutely nothing about air rifles, scopes or adjusting them!

First, do not attempt to "sight in" at 100 yards! It's a Daisey Powerline, it will not shoot 100 yards if you are facing into the wind.

30 yards is a stretch for this weapon. Accepted accuracy range for a pellet rifle is 10 meters. On a good day you might stretch that to 50 feet.

I know the flame war is about to start with everyone and his Aunt Sadie having the magic pellet rifle that will kill bear at 100m.

Get real! The Powerline at 650fps starts out with less power then is carried by a .22lr at 350 yards, and that is not much power!

Sight in at 50 feet and do not move the scope hairs or play with the settings after you get it locked in. There is no need to "adjust for range" when your range is 50 feet.

Also consider that at the ranges involved open sights are plenty good enough and the cost of the scope would supply a whole lot of practice shooting ammo, or food for a year.

BTW, you double the clicks with each halving of range; 4 clicks per inch @100= 8clicks per inch @50= 16 clicks per inch@ 25.

No one messes with changing the settings for range unless they are using a varmit scope with large calibrated turrents knobs. The accepted method is to set the scope and learn what your bullet drop performance is. It is doubtful that any scope you purchase is going to have enough adjustment to compensate for the drop of a .177 caliber pellet from a Daisey Powerline at 100 yards. We are talking about holdover of 30-40 feet above the target, if you could hit the target.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcliffhanger View Post
the replies so far are evidence that no one is actually reading the posts before they answer. That and/or they know absolutely nothing about air rifles, scopes or adjusting them!

First, do not attempt to "sight in" at 100 yards! It's a Daisey Powerline, it will not shoot 100 yards if you are facing into the wind.

30 yards is a stretch for this weapon. Accepted accuracy range for a pellet rifle is 10 meters. On a good day you might stretch that to 50 feet.

I know the flame war is about to start with everyone and his Aunt Sadie having the magic pellet rifle that will kill bear at 100m.

Get real! The Powerline at 650fps starts out with less power then is carried by a .22lr at 350 yards, and that is not much power!

Sight in at 50 feet and do not move the scope hairs or play with the settings after you get it locked in. There is no need to "adjust for range" when your range is 50 feet.

Also consider that at the ranges involved open sights are plenty good enough and the cost of the scope would supply a whole lot of practice shooting ammo, or food for a year.
i hit paper targets at 30yds with the iron sights and they penetrate ion the tree behind it. these are wadcutters too. flat headed pellets. i just wanted to learn how to use my scope efficiently thats all. so ok, lets say I've zero'ed it at 30yds what would i do to calculate clicks from there. or at 50 feet like you suggested?
Old 05-07-2012, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcliffhanger View Post
the replies so far are evidence that no one is actually reading the posts before they answer. That and/or they know absolutely nothing about air rifles, scopes or adjusting them!

First, do not attempt to "sight in" at 100 yards! It's a Daisey Powerline, it will not shoot 100 yards if you are facing into the wind.

30 yards is a stretch for this weapon. Accepted accuracy range for a pellet rifle is 10 meters. On a good day you might stretch that to 50 feet.

I know the flame war is about to start with everyone and his Aunt Sadie having the magic pellet rifle that will kill bear at 100m.

Get real! The Powerline at 650fps starts out with less power then is carried by a .22lr at 350 yards, and that is not much power!


Sight in at 50 feet and do not move the scope hairs or play with the settings after you get it locked in. There is no need to "adjust for range" when your range is 50 feet.

Also consider that at the ranges involved open sights are plenty good enough and the cost of the scope would supply a whole lot of practice shooting ammo, or food for a year.
Wow....a 265 yard pellet gun? My .177 pellet pistol (pump) is darn accurate out to 30 yards, and I have actually hit a target at 100, but it was a BIG target.
I dunno, does that scope have a grenade launcher attachment? Shooting .177 pellets at 265 yards is more like lobbing grenades than shooting bullets.
Old 05-07-2012, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcliffhanger View Post
The replies so far are evidence that no one is actually reading the posts before they answer. That and/or they know absolutely nothing about air rifles, scopes or adjusting them!
.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:56 AM
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1 click - 100 yards = 1/4"

3 click - 100 feet = 1/4"

6 click - 50 feet = 1/4"

10 click - 30 feet = 1/4"

This what you looking for?
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Grump View Post
1 click - 100 yards = 1/4"

3 click - 100 feet = 1/4"

6 click - 50 feet = 1/4"

10 click - 30 feet = 1/4"

This what you looking for?
yes. but what did you use to calculate that?
Old 05-07-2012, 12:51 PM
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With a smooth bore pellet rifle and a plastic mounting point you will not be getting very good results no matter what you do. I too have a Powerline 35 and I wouldn't even consider a scope on it. Mainly for the two reasons that I stated above.
But, the calculations are simple math.
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From dcliffhanger: BTW, you double the clicks with each halving of range; 4 clicks per inch @100= 8clicks per inch @50= 16 clicks per inch@ 25.
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge631 View Post
yes. but what did you use to calculate that?
Basic arithmetic. If 1 click equals 1/4" at 100 yards at twice the distance it will equal 1/2" at half the distance it will equal 1/8"

30' is 1/10 of 100 yards so you need 10 clicks.

1 minute of arc actually comes out to 1.047" but some scopes are deliberately calibrated to come out to 1" per minute of arc to cut down on the mental math.

Seriously don't make the mistake of over thinking it. If you try to adjust your air rifle scope 1 click at a time at any distance you will wear out your adjustments and your patience long before you are happy. If you are high give the adjustment a whole turn down. Shoot 3 shots. If you aren't far enough down do it again till you pass where you want to be. Then crank back a percentage, half turn, quarter turn or whatever gets you close. then 2 or 3 clicks at a time. Your eyeball, your hands and your rifle will not be accurate enough where 1 click makes an appreciable difference. Do the same for windage and remember the pellets are much more wind sensitive than bullets at short ranges and subsonic speeds.

Your adjustment for a good honest 10 meter target on an indoor range may be off 4 or 5 clicks outside depending on a lot of things. If that is cause for worry you are in the wrong sport, just go with what the gun tells you and worry more about your groups than where your group is. Eventually the groups will get smaller as you play around with different ammo types to find what your gun likes the best, then you can fine tune.

Here are some of my favorite air gun targets.

http://www.airgunsmith.com/target/halfinchgridblrs.jpg

http://www.airgunsmith.com/target/ft1s.jpg

You can find these and more at this site: http://www.airgunsmith.com/target/free_targets.htm
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:53 PM
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why would you want to?
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:45 PM
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My son and I shoot .177 air guns when not at the range shooting high power stuff. Not sure if this helps, but here is some ballistic data on 7.9g .177 pellets. For an air gun capable of 100 yards shots, I would zero at shorter range and dial up from there.

I zero at 50 yards and you can see 100 yards is over 17" of drop w/ a 7.9g pellet at 850 FPS.

Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 850.0 0.753 11.2 0.000 0.0 ***
10 -0.0 -0.4 0.1 1.4 811.5 0.719 10.2 0.036 6.4 60.7
20 0.9 4.2 0.6 2.8 776.2 0.688 9.4 0.074 13.0 62.1
30 1.2 3.9 1.3 4.2 743.2 0.659 8.6 0.113 20.0 63.6
40 1.0 2.3 2.4 5.7 712.1 0.631 7.9 0.155 27.2 65.0
50 -0.0 -0.0 3.7 7.1 682.8 0.605 7.2 0.198 34.8 66.5
60 -1.7 -2.7 5.4 8.6 655.0 0.581 6.7 0.243 42.7 67.9
70 -4.2 -5.8 7.4 10.2 628.5 0.557 6.1 0.289 50.9 69.5
80 -7.6 -9.1 9.8 11.7 603.1 0.535 5.7 0.338 59.5 71.0
90 -12.0 -12.7 12.5 13.3 578.7 0.513 5.2 0.389 68.4 72.6
100 -17.4 -16.6 15.6 14.9 555.2 0.492 4.8 0.442 77.8 74.3
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:59 PM
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MOA = Minute of Angle.

LINK to Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minute_of_arc

After all that math...

1MOA = 1.047" @ 100 yards
1MOA = 2.094" @ 200 yards
etc.

1MOA is typically rounded off to 1 inch. Long range competitors and snipers make scope adjustments/corrections in MOA - not clicks. If you have a typical scope with 1/4" adjustments and you are shooting 3" low at 100 yards, your spotter will tell you to come up 3MOA - not 12 clicks. Hope that helps.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:53 PM
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okay i think I've got this down. example. so theres an equation
øMOA≈(s/d)•(360/2pi)•(60MOA/1)
or
øMOA≈(s/d)•(3437.7)

so if I'm at 30yds and i aim right at the center of the target and see that it hits 1 inch above the center than that is a 1"shot group which represents "s". and the "d" is distance, but this needs to be converted to inches so 30yds=90feet=1080 inches
so (1"/1080")•(3437.7) equals 3.1830 MOA. because i have a 1/4" scope. i divide by 1/4 so i get 12.7322 which would be 13 clicks total to hit the center at that same range. so one could say raise this 3 MOA
Old 05-07-2012, 11:16 PM
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33.3 yds x 3 = 100 yds

3 MOA @100 yds = ( 1.047 x 3 ) = 3.141"

3.141" / .25" = 12.564 clicks.

Like you say above, the formula for M.O.A.:

P.O.I. inches from zero / inches to target x 3437.7 = M.O.A.

Your shot group M.O.A. = 1 / 1080 x 3437.7 or 3.183 M.O.A.

3.183 M.O.A. x 1.047" = 3.333" @ 100 yds

3.333" / .25" = 13.33 clicks.

The world isn't that perfect though. Especially when dealing with the bullet drop involved, approximate distance, chamber pressure variances, wind, your hold, trigger control, scope adjustments that are imperfect and...

If your best hold adds or subtracts 1/2 MOA to most shots then your zero adjustment calculation is really thrown off before you even start your calculation.
Old 05-08-2012, 02:28 AM
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You have a $30 dollar gun designed for 10 meters, (32.8') with maybe a velocity of 650 fps which will vary from shot to shot, shooting a pellet almost 8 grains in weight and you are trying to figure out to the fraction of an inch where it is going to hit at 30 yards, (90') with a 1/4 minute scope. You will not be a happy camper unless you just like doing math and do not care to shoot. If you are shooting indoors and if you are shooting match grade bullets each weighing the same as the pellet before and after and if the shape of each pellet is perfectly symmetrical and if the bore is clean and the muzzle perfectly flat and if you can hold the gun with the same amount of tension between shots the absolute best you can possibly hope for is a deviation of no more than .25" at 10 meters and that my friend is a lot of if's. If you absolutely have to have that kind of accuracy at 30 yards than you need a .22 or .25 caliber.

You are taking the fun out of shooting an air rifle, just shoot and enjoy. If you are off crank the sights far enough to make a difference then split the difference with your next adjustment because unless you have the best daisy in the world and the best optics in the world you are not going to get micrometer accuracy.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:37 AM
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I was shooting buffalo with my Red Ryder when I was 8. Imagine what I could have done with a daisy.
Old 05-08-2012, 06:23 AM
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im only 16 so i cant get a .22 yet so i gotta work with what i got. ive been shooting my daisy for a while and can nail a 30yd target with the iron sight standing up for all 10 shots. may not be a high score on the target but i hit it. i just thought itd be cool to try to scope it and learn how to calculate MOA. i am indeed using match grade pellets. wad cutters are the most accurate for my gun.
Old 05-08-2012, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge631 View Post
im only 16 so i cant get a .22 yet so i gotta work with what i got. ive been shooting my daisy for a while and can nail a 30yd target with the iron sight standing up for all 10 shots. may not be a high score on the target but i hit it. i just thought itd be cool to try to scope it and learn how to calculate MOA. i am indeed using match grade pellets. wad cutters are the most accurate for my gun.
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If you absolutely have to have that kind of accuracy at 30 yards than you need a .22 or .25 caliber.
Old Grump meant a .22 or .25 pellet gun/Air rifle not a .22 Rimfire. And, I will add, with a rifled barrel, not a smooth bore like the Daisy 35.

Al
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