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Old 03-30-2012, 04:54 AM
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Default Daniel Defense Vs. Colt



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Wanting to pick up another AR, what is the general consensus on overall quality of the Colt 6920 versus a Daniel Defense M4? The goal is for a K.I.S.S. go to rifle, without alot of toys mounted on it.
Old 03-30-2012, 05:22 AM
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Flip a coin. They are both some of the best AR manufacturers in the industry. If you can go in the shop and hold both, whatever you prefer or whatever is cheaper buy. You won't regret it one but purchasing either rifle.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by BrianHinWV View Post
Wanting to pick up another AR, what is the general consensus on overall quality of the Colt 6920 versus a Daniel Defense M4? The goal is for a K.I.S.S. go to rifle, without alot of toys mounted on it.
Colt is more than likely going to be cheaper if that matters to you, as farside said flip a coin both produce a excellent product.
Old 03-30-2012, 10:14 AM
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Either one is top tier with all the backing and specifications.

I do dig the DD and their torture test video.

https://danieldefense.com/TortureTest
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:32 PM
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You'll never regret having the Colt.
The Daniel Defense is fantastic but, you still won't have a Colt.
You can always get the Daniel Defense later.
Old 03-31-2012, 03:05 PM
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I got the Daniel Defense base model about a year ago. DDIV I think. Two reasons tipped me to the DD. One was the price that my dealer gave me, and the other was the hammer forged barrel.

So far the rifle has performed flawlessly.
Old 03-31-2012, 09:20 PM
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Either one is top tier with all the backing and specifications.

I do dig the DD and their torture test video.

https://danieldefense.com/TortureTest
Really?

I never trusted a "torture test" that had to cut the video between the abuse and the firing.
Old 04-01-2012, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianHinWV View Post
Wanting to pick up another AR, what is the general consensus on overall quality of the Colt 6920 versus a Daniel Defense M4? The goal is for a K.I.S.S. go to rifle, without alot of toys mounted on it.

Many manufacturers....same personal preferences factor. Go with what you want/know.
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:55 AM
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i myself would go DD over colt. colts lost alot of the quality they use to be known for. Ive seen the show tac-tv and they ran the DD tourcher test and it was amazing how the gun and the aim point held up. i myself if i bought anouther one it would be a DD.
Old 04-01-2012, 03:07 AM
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Really?

I never trusted a "torture test" that had to cut the video between the abuse and the firing.
I doubt DD would like about the reliability of their testing. If found out, their reputation would be ruined
Old 04-01-2012, 08:57 AM
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And how would anyone find out? If they were indeed interested in people seeing the results of the torture test, they wouldn't cut.

I mean, OK, the helicopter drop could be hard to do with one camera take. BUT, there is no reason to cut something like the dirt test.

There's only two good reasons to make that camera cut
1. To make a "movie" which looks good, but isn't interested in real facts
2. To hide the actual results.

Either or, that video shows nothing that looks like a torture test. It shows torture, and then some shooting, and no one can confirm that the weapon is the same, hasn't been "fixed" hasn't been cleaned, etc. etc. etc.

It's up to the person watching as to whether or not they want to believe it. I choose not to because they made no effort to make it believable.
Old 04-01-2012, 11:30 AM
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I just bought an ar15 last week. I love the Daniel Defense, but went with the Colt because of ease of resale. Everyone knows and trusts Colt. If you plan to resell, I would, (did) go Colt. If you plan to not sell, go DD, and post pics to make me jealous.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:57 AM
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And how would anyone find out? If they were indeed interested in people seeing the results of the torture test, they wouldn't cut.

I mean, OK, the helicopter drop could be hard to do with one camera take. BUT, there is no reason to cut something like the dirt test.

There's only two good reasons to make that camera cut
1. To make a "movie" which looks good, but isn't interested in real facts
2. To hide the actual results.

Either or, that video shows nothing that looks like a torture test. It shows torture, and then some shooting, and no one can confirm that the weapon is the same, hasn't been "fixed" hasn't been cleaned, etc. etc. etc.

It's up to the person watching as to whether or not they want to believe it. I choose not to because they made no effort to make it believable.
I may be naive, but Daniel Defense and a select few companies are considered top tier manufacturers. If they wanted to do a torture test video, and found out their weapon was unable to take the abuse, they would have scrapped the entire video and that would have been the end of it. They run a HUGE risk of spinning propaganda if they did in fact cheat on the test and were found out. This is not 2 men and a video camera dropping rifles, this is a full production crew using helicopters etc. IF there was an induced malfunction you can bet that somebody there would have let it slip, and the gun community would have known about it overnight.

JMC2W.
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:15 PM
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The real life torture test of a weapon is on the battlefield... and that would be Colt or FN. With that said, nothing wrong with DD.
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djthemac View Post
I may be naive, but Daniel Defense and a select few companies are considered top tier manufacturers. If they wanted to do a torture test video, and found out their weapon was unable to take the abuse, they would have scrapped the entire video and that would have been the end of it. They run a HUGE risk of spinning propaganda if they did in fact cheat on the test and were found out. This is not 2 men and a video camera dropping rifles, this is a full production crew using helicopters etc. IF there was an induced malfunction you can bet that somebody there would have let it slip, and the gun community would have known about it overnight.

JMC2W.
This is a video series from a guy that did a Glock 21 torture test.
http://www.youtube.com/user/schapman43?feature=watch

He's no "full production crew" yet he manages to drop one from an airplane.

Point being, looking like a major deal doesn't make you one.

I'll tell you one thing for certain, If you are going to do a test showing how durable, functional, or anything else. You should SHOW that... not cut in the middle of it.

That DD doesn't even get THAT much, probably means that they should be hiring a REAL Production crew that doesn't f up the entire premise of the video.

Now, let me simply ask you this.
Would it be possible, to have a camera on the ground capture the drop, and then follow a shooter to pick the weapon up and fire it?

Would it be possible to cover the gun in dirt, dig it out, and shoot it without a camera cut?

If your answer is that it's possible. The next question would obviously be... THen why didn't they?
Old 04-01-2012, 06:08 PM
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here's a good example of how cut's are used to cheat.


First example 14 seconds to 20 seconds. The "cut" to hide any flaw in the product is at 18 seconds.

Second cut is the scene starting at 36 seconds. Look at the "puddle" visible all the way up to the product demonstration that starts at 44 seconds, when the cut all of a sudden has that puddle removed.

This is why any reasonably smart company, don't put out demonstration videos where actual proof relies on single shot camera work like a torture test, with Cuts in them. Unless they are trying to hide something.

Only the dumbest among us fall for it anymore.
Old 04-01-2012, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djthemac View Post
I may be naive, but Daniel Defense and a select few companies are considered top tier manufacturers. If they wanted to do a torture test video, and found out their weapon was unable to take the abuse, they would have scrapped the entire video and that would have been the end of it. They run a HUGE risk of spinning propaganda if they did in fact cheat on the test and were found out. This is not 2 men and a video camera dropping rifles, this is a full production crew using helicopters etc. IF there was an induced malfunction you can bet that somebody there would have let it slip, and the gun community would have known about it overnight.

JMC2W.
Just to expand further on what you have stated so other readers can try and make a informed decision on the torture test, here is a snipit from Larry Vickers about the torture test, he has first hand information and experince with this particular test.

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=100317

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Originally Posted by PalmettoPrecision View Post
Mr. Vickers, I was referred to your expertise by a friend, and since, I have done plenty of research on products you endorse and recommend. As many others do as well, I value your opinion.

I ran across the Daniel Defense torture test video you hosted a while ago, and was wondering... do you believe you are testing the reliability of the Daniel Defense rifle solely, or more of the AR platform as a whole?

And, if the Daniel Defense rifle really is that far above and beyond, what about it, in short, makes it just that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Vickers View Post
Really it is of a quality milspec AR/M4 style rifle in general - I have no doubt that a BCM or Colt for instance would have done just as well

However it must be said that DD did man up and put their carbine thru the test not knowing what the outcome would be - we ( me and my crew) definately expected to kill a carbine in the test; we never dreamed one gun would survive the whole test - and I can also tell you that DD examined the rifle at the end of the test and made some small changes to make it better - in particular the rail system

DD is one of a select few companies that make a top of the line M4 style rifle; if you buy one or a BCM or a Colt you, as a general rule, can't go wrong

Cheers

LAv
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Old 04-01-2012, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by controlledpress View Post
This is a video series from a guy that did a Glock 21 torture test.
http://www.youtube.com/user/schapman43?feature=watch

He's no "full production crew" yet he manages to drop one from an airplane.

Point being, looking like a major deal doesn't make you one.

I'll tell you one thing for certain, If you are going to do a test showing how durable, functional, or anything else. You should SHOW that... not cut in the middle of it.

That DD doesn't even get THAT much, probably means that they should be hiring a REAL Production crew that doesn't f up the entire premise of the video.

Now, let me simply ask you this.
Would it be possible, to have a camera on the ground capture the drop, and then follow a shooter to pick the weapon up and fire it?

Would it be possible to cover the gun in dirt, dig it out, and shoot it without a camera cut?

If your answer is that it's possible. The next question would obviously be... THen why didn't they?
Possibly bc one man with a handycam makes a video that looks like sh*t compared to a video designed to be a marketing tool assuming the weapon actually passes the test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84tecate View Post
Just to expand further on what you have stated so other readers can try and make a informed decision on the torture test, here is a snipit from Larry Vickers about the torture test, he has first hand information and experince with this particular test.

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=100317
I was just gonna say he could probably email L. Vickers if he still had doubts. Thx tecate!
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:19 PM
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Talk to the man that made the video???

That would be the guy that got PAID by DD to do it?

Sure, if you think that's a reliable source. Personally, I don't think vested interests are the best sources of impartial information.

Go to his webpage, the first thing you see is advertising for DD.
Old 04-02-2012, 01:14 AM
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Talk to the man that made the video???

That would be the guy that got PAID by DD to do it?

Sure, if you think that's a reliable source. Personally, I don't think vested interests are the best sources of impartial information.

Go to his webpage, the first thing you see is advertising for DD.
Easy buddy.

I think a healthy dose of skepticism can be a good thing. With that said, barring overt evidence to the contrary, I am inclined to take his word for it.


1) DD and a few others have top tier MFG credentials and reputations
2) DD has little to gain and much to lose if it was found to be tampering with their "torture test" video.
3) Given the amount of people on site during the filming and the close knit ties the gun community has, if a malfunction was induced, the video would have been scrapped or the information regarding the failure disseminated.
4) Larry Vickers has a reputation as a leading authority on CQB. It would not be wise to affiliate himself with a faulty product, or worse, produce a faked video. His ability to sell his skill set is not inherently tied to DD, he could be a spokesperson for BCM, Noveske etc.

But hey, who knows.

Last edited by djthemac; 04-02-2012 at 02:41 PM.. Reason: grammarz
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