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Old 03-25-2012, 05:21 PM
chas036 chas036 is offline
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Default Which rifle will penetrate a bullet proof vest?



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In a break down of society, many of the roving bands of looters and criminals will have bullet proof vests that they have looted from gunshops or other places. My question is..... of the following rifles which would penetrate a bullet proof vest. M1 carbine , M1 Garande, Ruger 223, 12 gauge shotgun, SKS ?
Old 03-25-2012, 05:29 PM
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All of them. .30 carbine might be stopped by a real good one, but anything else will blow through like there was nothing there.
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Old 03-25-2012, 05:32 PM
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It's not the firearm you should be asking about, it's the caliber you want. and it depends on what type of armored vest you are wearing, there are several different levels which stop certain calibers.

Type I
(.22 LR; .380 ACP) This armor would protect against 2.6 g (40 gr) .22 Long Rifle Lead Round Nose (LR LRN) bullets at a velocity of 329 m/s (1080 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and 6.2 g (95 gr) .380 ACP Full Metal Jacketed Round Nose (FMJ RN) bullets at a velocity of 322 m/s (1055 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). It is no longer part of the standard.
Type IIA
(9 mm; .40 S&W; .45 ACP) New armor protects against 8 g (124 gr) 9x19mm Parabellum Full Metal Jacketed Round Nose (FMJ RN) bullets at a velocity of 373 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1225 ft/s ± 30 ft/s); 11.7 g (180 gr) .40 S&W Full Metal Jacketed (FMJ) bullets at a velocity of 352 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1155 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and 14.9 g (230 gr) .45 ACP Full Metal Jacketed (FMJ) bullets at a velocity of 275 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (900 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). Conditioned armor protects against 8 g (124 gr) 9 mm FMJ RN bullets at a velocity of 355 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1165 ft/s ± 30 ft/s); 11.7 g (180 gr) .40 S&W FMJ bullets at a velocity of 325 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1065 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and 14.9 g (230 gr) .45 ACP Full Metal Jacketed (FMJ) bullets at a velocity of 259 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (850 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). It also provides protection against the threats mentioned in [Type I].
Type II
(9 mm; .357 Magnum) New armor protects against 8 g (124 gr) 9 mm FMJ RN bullets at a velocity of 398 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1305 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and 10.2 g (158 gr) .357 Magnum Jacketed Soft Point bullets at a velocity of 436 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1430 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). Conditioned armor protects against 8 g (124 gr) 9 mm FMJ RN bullets at a velocity of 379 m/s ±9.1 m/s (1245 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and 10.2 g (158 gr) .357 Magnum Jacketed Soft Point bullets at a velocity of 408 m/s ±9.1 m/s (1340 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). It also provides protection against the threats mentioned in [Types I and IIA].
Type IIIA
(.357 SIG; .44 Magnum) New armor protects against 8.1 g (125 gr) .357 SIG FMJ Flat Nose (FN) bullets at a velocity of 448 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1470 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and 15.6 g (240 gr) .44 Magnum Semi Jacketed Hollow Point (SJHP) bullets at a velocity of 436 m/s (1430 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). Conditioned armor protects against 8.1 g (125 gr) .357 SIG FMJ Flat Nose (FN) bullets at a velocity of 430 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1410 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and 15.6 g (240 gr) .44 Magnum Semi Jacketed Hollow Point (SJHP) bullets at a velocity of 408 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1340 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). It also provides protection against most handgun threats, as well as the threats mentioned in [Types I, IIA, and II].
Type III
(Rifles) Conditioned armor protects against 9.6 g (148 gr) 7.62x51mm NATO M80 ball bullets at a velocity of 847 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (2780 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). It also provides protection against the threats mentioned in [Types I, IIA, II, and IIIA].
Type IV
(Armor Piercing Rifle) Conditioned armor protects against 10.8 g (166 gr) .30-06 Springfield M2 armor-piercing (AP) bullets at a velocity of 878 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (2880 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). It also provides at least single hit protection against the threats mentioned in [Types I, IIA, II, IIIA, and III].
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Old 03-25-2012, 05:33 PM
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Most of the stuff you would find in a gunstore for sale will not stop anything military. Now they get ahold of the equipment military is using different story.
Old 03-25-2012, 05:58 PM
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Yeah if your opponent is wearing a plate carrier full of militart grade ballistic ceramic, they could be armed with a .22 revolver and a switchblade, and you'd be outgunned.
Old 03-25-2012, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anickode View Post
Yeah if your opponent is wearing a plate carrier full of militart grade ballistic ceramic, they could be armed with a .22 revolver and a switchblade, and you'd be outgunned.
Shot placement will nullify all of what you just said. Put one in each kneecap, then another in the collarbone area after they've fallen. You don't have to shoot to kill, immobilization will do just fine.
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traketawlker View Post
Shot placement will nullify all of what you just said. Put one in each kneecap, then another in the collarbone area after they've fallen. You don't have to shoot to kill, immobilization will do just fine.
No, it wouldn't kill him but it would probably **** him off enough that after he recovered he'd come back at ya another time.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:04 PM
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well of course shot placement is critical, but the OP is asking what will shoot THROUGH the vest, implying torso shots.
Old 03-25-2012, 10:22 PM
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Remember blunt trama can kill wíthout penetration too.
Old 03-25-2012, 11:07 PM
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The last vest I bought was a Second Chance class 2 Monarch. I did some testing on a piece of the material that I had requested from Second Chance and found that it was surprisingly tough. I used a tire as my mount for the material since placing it on a hard surface would in no way replicate the resiliency of a body. My first test was of a 158 gr. JHP .357 mag. fired from a 4" S&W at a distance of one foot. The bullet penetrated 8 layers of fabric. I then fired a .44 mag 240 gr. LSWC from a 6.5" S&W again at a distance of one foot. The bullet penetrated 4 layers of fabric. My final test was with a 180 gr. .40 cal FMJTC fired from a S&W 4006 w/5" barrel (my duty weapon), again fired from one foot. The bullet didn't even break the weave of the first layer of fabric. I was impressed. I have the video "Second Chance -vs- the cop killers" that documents many of Second Chance's saves. I know it was produced BY Second Chance, but it recounts instances when a vest stopped rounds far above what it was rated for. That being said, I KNOW that all the rounds that I fired were pistol rounds and the question was about rifle rounds. Soft armor will not typically stop rifle caliber rounds. To stop rifle rounds, you need steel or ceramic plates (that equals heavy, heavier at least). Kevlar, Spectra and the other aramids just can't stop rifle rounds by themselves.
Old 03-25-2012, 11:16 PM
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I don't care what type of vest one has I have the perfect weapon in my arsenal to defeat it. Unless you have an armor piercing round plate, my compound bow with a broadhead with slice right through it. Don't always think of of firearms to defeat those with bullet proof equipment.
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chas036 View Post
In a break down of society, many of the roving bands of looters and criminals will have bullet proof vests that they have looted from gunshops or other places. My question is..... of the following rifles which would penetrate a bullet proof vest. M1 carbine , M1 Garande, Ruger 223, 12 gauge shotgun, SKS ?
Deadfall, spear, arrow, punji pit, snare, bomb, incendiary device, ram, venomous reptile, trapdoor, portcullis, cannon... does it really have to be a rifle?
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:30 PM
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best place to shoot someone is just below the navel, most plates stop around there, and the aeortic arterie is under there. One little knick to that artery and a person will bleed out in a matter of minutes and even if they fell onto an operating table they would still die.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traketawlker View Post
Shot placement will nullify all of what you just said. Put one in each kneecap, then another in the collarbone area after they've fallen. You don't have to shoot to kill, immobilization will do just fine.
Bingo, and let me add to the OP's question..I don't dobt that some of the raiders would have ballistic vests, in the earlt weeks of a SHTF senario..You have to ask yourself a few questions..The first is how many gun shops are their in your area? Just say there were one shop for every 5000 people..I believe my county has approx 1,000,000 people..(So that would be approx 200 gun shops.) How many vests do you think each shop keeps in the inventory? (Granted a police supply store and a military armeror would have a few of them)...

Keep in mind, a ballistic vest doesn't turn you into robocop...They are, for the most part, made to keep you alive by protecting your vital organs..They are not designed to protect every part of your body..If a raider takes a few hits, you probably will end his day (maybe not life.)

Months after TEOTWAWKI, I would assume that every raider would have a balisitic vest and concentrate on head shots and leg shots.

Just my two cents..
Old 03-26-2012, 02:20 PM
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I really doubt there's going to be any abundance of body armor among raiders. Some, but not many.

And if they do have body armor, the majority will be Class IIIa at the most, which really only works well against pistol ammo.
Old 03-26-2012, 03:13 PM
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338 Lapua Mag or a .50 caliber will, as well as many other calibers available. Keep in mind that some projectiles are designed to expand and others are designed to penetrate.
Old 03-26-2012, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chas036 View Post
In a break down of society, many of the roving bands of looters and criminals will have bullet proof vests that they have looted from gunshops or other places.
Many? You've been watching too many movies.
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:09 PM
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Short of Level IV plates, no bullet proof vest is rated for rifles.

Trust me, from first hand experience even with plates getting hit with rifle bullets still sucks............
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:32 PM
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Level 4 plates can stop all of those rounds. I'd shoot them over and over again until they're no longer a threat.
Old 03-26-2012, 07:11 PM
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.338 Lapua and .50BMG and some other very expensive exotic rounds like the cheytec rounds and probably some Weatherby rounds.

All these rounds that will penetrate ceramic plates on first shot will be very, very expensive. The guns are expensive and the ammo is expensive, practice shot placement with a .223 and you will be fine.
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