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Old 03-13-2012, 08:44 PM
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Default Tactical Civilians vs. The Old 'School'



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So here is something I would like to have an honest discussion about and try not to bruise any egos(including my own) in the process. I am a pretty young guy and spent time in the military and these recent wars. When I got out of the military I was thrown into the 'hype' and 'madness' that is the 'tactical' cool nature of everything going on these days with the marketing of gear towards civilians. It is almost like as much as many people make fun of the young kids and their Call of Duty get up some of the 'adults' I know are spending THOUSANDS on 'tactical' gear but they couldn't even run a mile down the block. Some warriors...... It seems every time I turn around there is a new weapon, chest rig, knife, magazine, ammunition, and friggin Christmas stocking that has a tacticool aspect to it and probably even TACTICAL in the name. There is even ZOMBIE MAX ammunition for gods sake now. What I want to know is.....WHO ELSE FINDS THIS OBNOXIOUS?

I used to be that guy who had the $2000 AR-15, $1500 1911, chest rig outfitted with cool 'morale' patches, large fixed blade knife hung upside down on the chest rig, new camoflauge pants, tactical gloves, blah blah blah etc. etc. etc. Then one day.....it hit me. It started slooooww......First, I took the optic of the AR(I KNOW BLASPHEMY)...and I suddenly realized...oh my god...how light it was! You mean I don't need batteries anymore? Iron sights don't break or run out of batteries? Then I took the cool guy rail off, and whaddya know....it got lighter. Soon I was doing it with everything. I was blowing guys away at the range with a little standard $700 A2 carbine against their $4000 AR beast and they couldn't figure it out. Going more minimalist and less 'tactical', who would have thought it would make you 'better'. Do you know what I found out? I DIDN'T NEED ANY OF IT. I was suddenly lighter, faster, more accurate, and my wallet and bank account actually had some $$ in them. Now, I know some of you might be offended and thats not my intention AT ALL.

I just want everyone to take a moment to reflect on their gear situation. Think of what you really need and if what you have really makes you more 'prepared'. If it does and you feel you NEED it....more power to you. If not, then use this opportunity to rethink your plan. I hope you all take this rant the right way. I was one of the worst offenders of being 'tacticool' until I saw the light. I am not judging any of you and I am not saying that having quality gear isn't important. I just think its like anything in our country nowadays. The businesses and moneymakers want to make you think that if you don't have THEIR gear than you are unprepared. That is complete BS. Just want to share my recent changes in thought and hope it helps some of you or all of you out there. Cheers
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:24 PM
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Same thing I learned. Keep it simple and reliable. The tacticool crap does nothing but add weight and make you look like a dork. And unlike you, I don't much care if I bruise egos.
Old 03-13-2012, 09:25 PM
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Thanks for the support Mike. Glad I am not the only one that thinks this way or realized this.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:33 PM
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IM 63 yrs old and have lived in my home for over 30 yrs. in the cascade mts of washington state. that said Im a hunter not trophy but just for meat. A few lever rifle a few bolt action and a revolver 357 and a colt 1911. Thats about as tactical as i plan on getting. To old to play RAMBO.
Old 03-13-2012, 09:44 PM
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I'm kind of an old fart (62) in fairly decent shape. A lot of what I have is old surplus stuff. It's what I'm used to and it works for me. I just want to preserve me and mine, not go on a crusade. Tacticool gear won't replace training and mindset.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:05 PM
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minimalist is what I like in gear, my AR has a rail still but wears the carry handle and only a VFG.
I stripped my gear down to essentials only, and not only am I faster but also lighter, so that means I can carry extra water or put more gear in my pack for sustainment.

The tactical marketing craze has always been amusing to me........ I stick with what works not what the cool kids are drooling over.

Some people out there have to have the latest gizmo to try and make up for a lack of actual skills or having a small pee pee..........
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:08 PM
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Heck I have had guys show up at the range with the latest tacticool AR with super high power scopes and they aren't even able to hit targets at the 200 yard line. Then I shoot and off in the distance they hear PING! They ask me what that sound was, I tell them it means I just hit my target at 300 yards. They look astonished as I work the action on my 1903 Mark I that I am shooting with iron sights and do it again.

I swear to god it happened exactly like that on more than one occasion and my shooting buddies laugh every time it does. Hell I have had guys ask if I was a sniper because of how I was shooting and I have to laugh. I am way over weight (but working on it) and I do not shoot as well as the few actual snipers and DM's I do know. Thing is that rifle is my baby, if I am in the mountains it is with me, if I am hunting more than likely I am carrying it or my Winchester 70 in '06. Many many years ago it was worked over as a match rifle and has about the smoothest bolt action I have ever felt. Heck if I had to sell all my guns tomorrow and could only keep one it would be that one.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:15 PM
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I think one of the most important things for people to remember (especially on a SURVIVALIST site) is that gear breaks, gets lost, gets stolen, stops working etc. People who have trained with less, honed their mind and body for mental and physical toughness will be the ones who survive. Not those with the best and latest or most equipment.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:32 PM
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It really comes down to ever tactical advantage has a disadvantave too. Take a tactical light on your rifle for example. The advantage is it puts light on target. The disadvatages are it affects the balance of the rifle and it casts light indiscriminately allowing you foes to easily spot you when it is on. You should check the pros and cons of any and all tactical equipment you consider using. Just because it is a tactical whatever doesn't mean it is necessary.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:39 PM
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But I loves the red dot

Started out on irons (for years)....not going back lol....

I carried around an M60 when I was in...so everything else seems light by comparison...

But generally speaking, I don't like a lot of stuff hanging off my weapons....

I've mentioned before that I don't even like slings because they get caught up on all kinds of crap walking through woods and get in the way when I grab the weapon, but they serve a purpose.



I also like folding stock type rifles....a lot
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:43 PM
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To me the point of having a carbine was close quarters and vehicle use, now if I wanted a 14 lb weapon I would get an M1A or Garand........ so hanging everything under the sun on the carbine negates the purposes of having one for me.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:46 PM
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Right on!


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Old 03-13-2012, 10:47 PM
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I absolutely love a good bolt action rifle. There's not a whole lot you can do to one besides a scope and sling. I have never been a huge fan of the black rifle. I know they are useful and all... but there's just something about a bigger heavier older rifle that I love.

At the range 2 months ago I saw a guy with a "pimped out" AK with you name it on it. He was blazing away and barely hitting the man sized cardboard target he had at 25 yards.
Old 03-13-2012, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remus View Post
Heck I have had guys show up at the range with the latest tacticool AR with super high power scopes and they aren't even able to hit targets at the 200 yard line. Then I shoot and off in the distance they hear PING! They ask me what that sound was, I tell them it means I just hit my target at 300 yards. They look astonished as I work the action on my 1903 Mark I that I am shooting with iron sights and do it again.
One of the things that some people don't understand is that when it comes to ballistics and distances....such as those individuals at your range...

Is that 300 yards is not far in the grand scheme of things, it just takes practice, good on you.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:51 PM
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Carry that older heavier rifle for 26 miles non stop with an 80 lb pack, you'd see the value of the black rifle reallly quick.

I do agree though a good bolt gun is a must for long range work.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sojurn87 View Post
But I loves the red dot

Started out on irons (for years)....not going back lol....

I carried around an M60 when I was in...so everything else seems light by comparison...

But generally speaking, I don't like a lot of stuff hanging off my weapons....

I've mentioned before that I don't even like slings because they get caught up on all kinds of crap walking through woods and get in the way when I grab the weapon, but they serve a purpose.



I also like folding stock type rifles....a lot
Haha oh I understand my friend. I am not just talking rifles though. It seems everything under the sun now has to be 'tactical' or have MOLLE webbing on it or be in 'Flat Dark Earth'. It is just ridiculous. Then you get those guys that are 'tactical' BA's like Travis Haley etc and they market their gear and blah blah blah. Those guys are MILLIONARIES. Of course they will try to make that stuff look like it 'helps' and makes you a 'better' shooter and more of a 'warrior'. Its making them RICH......
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:58 PM
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very well thought out. I am a touch too drunk and lazy to comment further however.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger375 View Post
Haha oh I understand my friend. I am not just talking rifles though. It seems everything under the sun now has to be 'tactical' or have MOLLE webbing on it or be in 'Flat Dark Earth'. It is just ridiculous. Then you get those guys that are 'tactical' BA's like Travis Haley etc and they market their gear and blah blah blah. Those guys are MILLIONARIES. Of course they will try to make that stuff look like it 'helps' and makes you a 'better' shooter and more of a 'warrior'. Its making them RICH......
You have to understand that I'm part redneck so I'm not quite sure what ur saying here
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMacnamara View Post
very well thought out. I am a touch too drunk and lazy to comment further however.
I am jealous. I have class in the morning. Tomorrow I have a date with a glass of Gentleman Jack however. Oh...and thanks
Old 03-13-2012, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sojurn87 View Post
One of the things that some people don't understand is that when it comes to ballistics and distances....such as those individuals at your range...

Is that 300 yards is not far in the grand scheme of things, it just takes practice, good on you.
Yeah I practice quite a bit with a .22 shooting at 200 yards at that range. I will say I have seen some absolutely amazing shooters at that range. Whenever I see one I try and learn what I can from them.
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