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Old 03-07-2012, 10:46 PM
cpeater cpeater is offline
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Default Oxygen Generator



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New to the site and prepping, let me give you little background then I have a question for anyone that can help.

I have started collecting supplies food weapons etc. I have built a self sustaining auqaponics greenhouse that produces veg, some fruit and fish.

I am Mech eng by trade. I am planning on building an underground shelter out of five 40ft shipping containers that are reinforced and incased in concrete. With that being said I understand what I need to do as far as ventilation etc. except for the following.

I am designing this thing so I will have aquaponics underground as well as the ability to have some chickens, 2 pigs and one cow. I don't know how many of you are fimiliar with the whole Nibiru thing. I would figure most of you. That beign said I have been researching several things and have come across some recent information that leads me to believe that it is real and it is a brown dwarf.

Which means if it comes buy the poles will shift and there will be huge floods at least for the short term. It is easy to set up ventilation with hepa etc. I plan on being able to seal myself off from the outside air for at least 2 weeks I would like to be able to do it for one month.

If Nibiru is real and we get turned on the axis most place on earth will be underwater at least for one to two weeks while the water sheds back into what will become the new oceans and lakes etc.

I know how I will need approx.(.7kg) of oxygen per person per day plus oxygen for the animals. I have looked everywhere online and no one speaks about this posibility of a short term flood. I have looked for information on building and Oxygen Generator of some sort using water and electric current.

This is not my area of expertise, so I am wondering if anyone has any plans or know where I could get some that would make an oxygen generator burning off the hydrogen to repower the batteries to run it thus producing oxygen to breath.

I would like some type of plans as well as the approx. rate of oxygen generated.

Then the last issue is a cheap large scale way to make a CO2 scrubber. I know this subject is fairly complex issue. I consider myself a fairly smart guy, and I know alot of you persons are the same way jack of all trades master of none as it were. I can't believe I am the only one to be thinking about this posibility. I would apperciate any thouhts and or help.
Old 03-07-2012, 11:31 PM
Head4TheHills Head4TheHills is offline
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These folks (Biosphere 2), with millions of dollars of grant money, thought they could make a self-sustaining biosphere but it turned out that they still needed CO2 scrubbers. I don't know the answers to any of your questions but you might be able to benefit from some of the studies that people like that (or maybe NASA) have done.
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:49 PM
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If you have electricity, why not just use an O2 concentrator? You can buy them. People who have to use O2 use them for their O2 source at home. I have a couple of them from when my mom was on O2.

I guess it wouldn't work if you're going to be in a sealed environment though. But you can also buy medical O2 tanks fairly cheap. They're all over the used market. It's the CO2 scrubber that's going to be the hassle.
Old 03-08-2012, 12:08 AM
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One heck of a project. It takes a lot power to decompose water back into hydrogen and oxygen (one of two reasons we don't have hydrogen powered cars). Burning the hydrogen converts it back to water, better to vent it off. I think the CO2 scrubber runs on Lithium hydroxide goes to Li Carbonate. +1 for NASA as a place to look for answers, look at the International Space Station.
Old 03-08-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpeater View Post
I am designing this thing so I will have aquaponics underground as well as the ability to have some chickens, 2 pigs and one cow.

Sounds like a big project. Given the likelihood of needing something like this, I would only consider putting resources into this if other preps are already done. That of course is your choice though

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpeater View Post
This is not my area of expertise, so I am wondering if anyone has any plans or know where I could get some that would make an oxygen generator burning off the hydrogen to repower the batteries to run it thus producing oxygen to breath.
If you burn the oxygen to recover power you will be binding the oxygen again and therefore end with no oxygen generated. Anyway you would never recover the energy put into it so not worth burning anything. Why not just use bottled oxygen? I strongly suspect it would be easier to store oxygen bottled than store the water, the fuel and equipment for separating h2O.

Either way your still going to need scrubbers (or bleed out air and replace with new air) and you will need them before you need to generate any oxygen.
Old 03-08-2012, 02:50 PM
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You can't just pump oxygen into a sealed environment. That's assuming you could get an O2 generator. You need CO2 scrubbers.
Old 03-08-2012, 03:08 PM
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Yes I know that if you would have read my entire post I mention that.
Old 03-08-2012, 03:12 PM
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Biggest problem is that if your underground shelters become under water shelters, is they will float. Pop right up from under. Nothing to stop them even with concrete around them. It would take a rather massive anchored to bedrock structure to prevent flotation.

If you don't expect them to be underwater, but need good air, go with a good filter/scrubber system.
Old 03-08-2012, 03:15 PM
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Wow sounds really intense. I really can't add anything but to wish you good luck. I personally will just bug out to a higher location.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:26 PM
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Biggest problem is that if your underground shelters become under water shelters, is they will float. Pop right up from under. Nothing to stop them even with concrete around them. It would take a rather massive anchored to bedrock structure to prevent flotation.

Hmm good point I will have to address this I fear we may all be under water foe short period of time.
Old 03-08-2012, 03:56 PM
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About how far under water are you thinking? 20ft or less? How about some form of a telescoping snorkel tube. Might be a lot easier to design something like that to bring in fresh air.
Old 03-08-2012, 03:59 PM
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What state do you live in..? Just wondering if your thinking you'll be under water..
Old 03-08-2012, 04:28 PM
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Many major buildings that are completely inclosed because all the windows don't open (they are essentially glass walls) have an amazing set up in the basement that most people don't even know it exists. They have a ventilation system, but along with ventilation these monoliths have sensors to detect the buildings levels of oxygen, carbon dioxide and nitrogen on the individual floors. The ventilation system takes care of the vast majority of the building's needs... But occasionally the levels of oxygen or nitrogen have to be altered. They have these enormous tanks ( think of a scuba tank the size of a refrigerator) - and a tech can see that Floor #11 doesn't have enough oxygen... And he directly pipes a little extra oxygen directly to the floor.

My guess is that your only realistic way to do this is to buy one of those type tanks. I think it will cost you major bucks but it's the only thing that would probably work. As the poster above noted... The Biosphere project was a failure and they had to vent a couple times. You simply can't realistically gauge the amount of oxygen an underground greenhouse could produce.

And a suggestion to all... If you want to see something really cool.., ask the maintenance guy at a major enclosed sky scraper to give you a tour of their ventilation system. It will flip you out.
Old 03-08-2012, 05:05 PM
ChrisInGa ChrisInGa is offline
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Splitting oxygen and hydrogen with electricity (electrolysis) requires a decent amount of power and/or a catalyst. A basic example takes a battery and connects each terminal to an iron nail. The two nails are then placed in a beaker of water. Oxygen is produced from the positive node and hydrogen from the negative. Do not touch the two nodes.

Using a touch of sulfuric acid in the water will help catalyze the reaction.

The reaction is not 100% efficient and thus the hydrogen produced will never be sufficient to create the power necessary to split more molecules. Note the combination of hydrogen and oxygen in fuel cells produces electricity. Probably your most efficient way to create electricity as combustion is much less efficient.

Keep in mind that the world's submarine fleets didn't really do this until they began using nuclear power. The reason is simple. It requires a great deal of excess energy to do.

But if you want a basic primer to play around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water
Old 03-08-2012, 05:46 PM
greek_nakos greek_nakos is offline
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If you're setting up an aquaponics rig then select several plant types that process larger amounts of CO2. You know nature's CO2 scrubber. Duckweed and algae converts huge amounts of CO2 into oxygen.
Old 03-08-2012, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerdude View Post
About how far under water are you thinking? 20ft or less? How about some form of a telescoping snorkel tube. Might be a lot easier to design something like that to bring in fresh air.
Or, you know...a boat.
Old 03-08-2012, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Or, you know...a boat.
I'd go with a platform instead of a boat. The same sort of concepts that an oil drilling platform uses. The're considerably more stable than a boat.

http://www.seasteading.org/about/visionstrategy/
Old 03-08-2012, 06:15 PM
jfirebalrog jfirebalrog is offline
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I would have to agree that the surface would be a much better source for air(via a compressor/pump of some sort) but you might research the Draeger rebreathers.
Old 03-08-2012, 06:32 PM
Head4TheHills Head4TheHills is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerdude View Post
About how far under water are you thinking? 20ft or less? How about some form of a telescoping snorkel tube. Might be a lot easier to design something like that to bring in fresh air.
Or, you know...a boat.
I was thinking that too. Didn't some guy named Noah do something like that many years ago?

P.S. Joking aside, there are some (this guy, for instance) who would say that the account of Noah happened about the time of the last occurrence of a natural cycle that periodically causes the poles to rapidly shift (with disastrous effects) and that we are nearing the time for the next cycle. Not sure if he is right but not sure he is wrong either.

Last edited by Head4TheHills; 03-08-2012 at 06:46 PM.. Reason: Added P.S.
Old 03-08-2012, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpeater View Post
...I would apperciate any thouhts and or help.
It's hard to answer a question when I believe the very premise of the question (Nibiru) is complete horse sh!t. But ok, I'll try to address some of your points:

1. If your goal is to stay down there for up to one month, then why do you need the livestock and the garden? Is this some sort of "Noah's Ark" and you plan on using the critters & plants to repopulate the earth once the danger is over? If not, then storing a month's worth of prepared canned food is far easier.

2. How do you know your "Ark" will not be 1000 feet under water once all the new oceans and lakes are formed?

3. Even if an oxygen generator/scrubber were easily available, what will you power it with? A gas-fired generator requires oxygen too and will need somewhere for the exhaust to go. You also have to consider that the methane produced by all that critter poo will need to be dealt with as well. Going a month on battery power alone is just not is do-able. Having above-ground solar panels wired through a sealed shaft is possible as long as the panels are not wiped out by a flood or the 500 mph wind storms, or taken offline by Nibiru eclipsing the sun.

If you are serious about this, look into what NASA does for space flights. Also, check out scrubbers for submarines, mines, clean rooms, etc. Being mechanical engineer, you may be able to come up with a hybrid technology that works for your specific application.
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