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Old 02-07-2012, 12:13 AM
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Default making rifle brass



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Hello guys,

I posted this topic on this forum before.

do you guys know of a way to make rifle brass in a home setting?

it seems like an important thing to know how to do. especially in a survival situation..


I have posted this topic on the ammosmith forum and they have links about making brass via a cnc lathe. and making straight walled brass from brass tubing (.38spl) ... shotgun rounds from pvc etc.

http://www.ammosmith.com/forum/index...ic,5492.0.html

but what about rimmless rifle cartridges?

any idea's no matter how off the wall are welcomed.
Old 02-07-2012, 08:37 AM
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I know of no practical way. In a survival situation, you'll likely not have the electricity or time to make brass on a lathe. I probably have enough brass to last me and 10 other people a couple lifetimes. Stock it deep...
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:51 AM
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Its not really a practical thing to do. Lathe turned brass is alot of work. I know there were people turning out basically 24 ga shotgun brass for conversion into 577/450 shells, as it was the only way to fire the rifles for a long time, with ammo pretty much unobtainable.

In a SHTF situation are you going to have the electric to run a lathe and lots of time to turn out a few shells. Just stock up on some brass. I have 300 win mag brass I bought over 10 years ago, I just neck size lasts longer that way. With my 577/450 you anneal the neck of your brass every so many reloads from work hardening.
Old 02-07-2012, 09:31 AM
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Sloth,saw your post on Ammo's site just didn't have time to respond and forgot about it. Although there are some cartridges that are of there own unique design many are based on a parent cartridge or can be formed from another cartridge entirely. Researching you particular cartridge and you may find plenty of easily convertible brass just lying around.

As an example I form 9 x 18 Mak. brass from once fired 9mm brass. Brass for my Sav.99 in 300 Sav. can be made from 308 Win. or 7.62 NATO by simply running the case through the 300 Sav. FL resizing die and trimming the case neck to the proper length. The 300 Sav. was the original parent case that the 7.62 NATO/308 Win. was designed from so the conversion is simple and cheap with all the free brass left lying around.

7.62 NATO to 300 Sav. in two steps.


This book is probably more along the line of what your after.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/447...sting-_-447634
Old 02-07-2012, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by res45 View Post
Sloth,saw your post on Ammo's site just didn't have time to respond and forgot about it. Although there are some cartridges that are of there own unique design many are based on a parent cartridge or can be formed from another cartridge entirely. Researching you particular cartridge and you may find plenty of easily convertible brass just lying around.

As an example I form 9 x 18 Mak. brass from once fired 9mm brass. Brass for my Sav.99 in 300 Sav. can be made from 308 Win. or 7.62 NATO by simply running the case through the 300 Sav. FL resizing die and trimming the case neck to the proper length. The 300 Sav. was the original parent case that the 7.62 NATO/308 Win. was designed from so the conversion is simple and cheap with all the free brass left lying around.

7.62 NATO to 300 Sav. in two steps.


This book is probably more along the line of what your after.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/447...sting-_-447634
I was kinda hoping to make brass from every day items like brass tubing or something like that.

I wonder if you could make a mold then fill it. . .
Old 02-07-2012, 12:17 PM
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I would think that the expense of equipment to make brass from scratch, you could buy a lifetime supply of cases instead.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:20 PM
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Buy a lathe, or buy a bunch of brass? I'm going with the brass.
Save a little here and there and buy a couple thousand brass cases for the rounds you are planning on shooting. That should be enough to last you the rest of your life.
Old 02-07-2012, 01:25 PM
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Oh, you do have to invest in a reloading equipment too. Look into an interchangeable turret press to keep your dies set if you reload several calibers.
Old 02-07-2012, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
I was kinda hoping to make brass from every day items like brass tubing or something like that.

I wonder if you could make a mold then fill it. . .
I didn't know that "brass" tubing was an everyday item? I know I can get my hands on some copper tubing pretty easy, but I hardly EVER see brass tubing lying around in people's yards. I know that I don't have any in my house. And I doubt my neighbors do either. Brass is different than copper and in tubing form, its less likely to be around in abundance than copper would be.

I guess that you can buy it from a hardware store or hobby shop....But that don't really fit into the SHTF scenario now does it? When I think of SHTF...I think of resources running out for people that have prepped and I think of stores not being open to buy materials to stock back up.

Another question, how much is brass tubing to buy in comparison to just "stocking up" on brass casings? If it happens to be cheaper, how much is your time worth to turn it on a lathe and perhaps having to get a press to stamp the brass out of sheets? Also, will there be electricity to even run a lathe off of? Even if you had a generator to produce electricity, would you rather use the electricity for other things? How much is the cost of the equipment to make all of this? Even if you where able to produce them, would they be safe? If using hollow tubing, how would you form the head? Would you solder/weld a solid piece to the hollow tube? would that weld handle the CUP generated by that rifle? The only way I can see this being done is by using solid brass tubing and wasting all the brass inside the tube. Essentially you would have a "milled" casing formed from a solid piece of brass. Factories don't take the time to "mill" every casing that comes down the line. The cost would be ridiculous and a waste of material. I'm guessing that factories form their brass casing from large hydraulic presses that stamp out the brass from flat sheets and then they are moved along to many other large scale processes. This is not a practical home operation.


What you really have to ask yourself is, does the end product justify the means? In my opinion, the cost of an operation that could turn solid brass tubing into bullet casings would be quite high. Like some of the others have said, you might be better off using that money to stock up on the casings you need.
Old 02-07-2012, 02:43 PM
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If you want to have ammo after a SHTF situation, then you need to get set up for reloading. Get a good reloading press, and necessary dies. Buy lots of brass, powder, and primers. You can also cast your own bullets from lead. Any kind of lead will work. You can use wheel weights, fishing weights, lead from a battery, just about any lead will do.
Old 02-07-2012, 03:02 PM
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Complete waste of time, space, and efforts with current availability of ammo, prices and reloading items available on the market. I would put my thoughts, time, and efforts into other things.
Old 02-07-2012, 03:06 PM
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Making cases is very involved, requiring a lot of specialized equipment to draw, form and shape them. Even making bullets is far less involved. Making bullets is feasible and there is equipment available to do so in a home setting (Corbin Swaging). But there is none for making cases because of the complexity of it.
Old 02-07-2012, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
I was kinda hoping to make brass from every day items like brass tubing or something like that.

I wonder if you could make a mold then fill it. . .
But then what do you do about primers? Brass is the least of your problems, at least it's reusable.
Old 02-07-2012, 05:46 PM
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But then what do you do about primers? Brass is the least of your problems, at least it's reusable.
match heads, they can be a primer or powder substitute.
about 58 matches are needed for 7.62 mm cartridge

I read it in a old military survival Manuel. you want to reuse the spent primer also.
(Improvised munitions handbook TM 31-210)
they said to use a bolt as the bullet lol

in the Manuel they didn't go into making brass. probably because it was to hard.

cnc lathes aren't what companys use to make brass they use a hydrolic draw press from what I've read.
http://www.ssarmory.com/ammunitionma...equipment.aspx

Old 02-07-2012, 05:47 PM
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my point is without that 25 cent piece of brass your weapon you are guarding your life with is useless.
not only that, but no one knows how to make (or can't make) that 25 cent piece of brass..
you are dependent on a factory to make it for you. No factory? you screwed.




you can stock up but what if you have to leave your stock pile and/or bug out?
Old 02-07-2012, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_guy View Post
If you want to have ammo after a SHTF situation, then you need to get set up for reloading. Get a good reloading press, and necessary dies. Buy lots of brass, powder, and primers. You can also cast your own bullets from lead. Any kind of lead will work. You can use wheel weights, fishing weights, lead from a battery, just about any lead will do.
Your spot on about casting but please stay away from battery lead avoid it at all cost. Maintenance free/low maintenance batteries use calcium metal-doped lead to catalyze the hydrogen gas. The lead alloy used in batteries also contains a bit of antimony and arsenic to help harden and strengthen the lead. When hydrogen comes in contact with arsenic and antimony, the hydrogen reacts to form ammonia analogues called arsine and stibine, AsH3 and SbH3.

In World War One the Germans experimented with these as war gases. As such they were highly effective since they are deadly in amounts too small to easily detect. Take you used batteries to the local recyclers and trade them for usable lead or take the cash and buy commercial cast bullets or alloys.
Old 02-07-2012, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
my point is without that 25 cent piece of brass your weapon you are guarding your life with is useless.
not only that, but no one knows how to make (or can't make) that 25 cent piece of brass..
you are dependent on a factory to make it for you. No factory? you screwed.




you can stock up but what if you have to leave your stock pile and/or bug out?
If you can't bring your brass stockpile with you, then you certainly can't take a lathe or hydraulic press with you.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
my point is without that 25 cent piece of brass your weapon you are guarding your life with is useless.
not only that, but no one knows how to make (or can't make) that 25 cent piece of brass..
you are dependent on a factory to make it for you. No factory? you screwed.




you can stock up but what if you have to leave your stock pile and/or bug out?
Not trying to be a smart-ass but the same can be said with a firing pin or springs.

It will be easier to carry loaded rounds if you are having to bug out than carrying your brass making equipment and even your reloading equipment and components.

When it comes to SHTF, lots of folks will be royally screwed even if they have prepared.

Brass and primers will be the hardest things to try to make. Using match heads for primers isn't an exact science and I'd hate to have to rely on them in a life or death situation.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
match heads, they can be a primer or powder substitute.
about 58 matches are needed for 7.62 mm cartridge

I read it in a old military survival Manuel. you want to reuse the spent primer also.

Not that I don't think that it is valuable to know how to refill your own primers. But for some reason (while I was scratching away at 58 match heads) I could picture myself thinking....."Boy, I wish that I would have spent the $2.40 for those hundred primers.

It seems with this method you would end up spending $4 to load 10 primers. Not counting the amount of time it takes to do this task.

I know, I know, according to your logic, if the preppers all run out of primers and factories are no longer making them anymore, we will be all screwed if we don't know how to make our own primers.

How long would it take to load 10 primers using this method? Please consider this fact also, If a prepper has ran out of his primers, he has most likely ran out of his bullets, powder, and brass also.....So what does he do then?

If you are the guy making his primers out of match sticks, have you ever thought for a minute about what would happen if you ran out of match sticks?
And don't say that you wont run out because you will stock up on SOOOO MANY of them. Thats exactly what the guys would tell you that are stocking up on primers.

If I am at the last resort where I have to scratch matchsticks for an hour to make one primer, while the bad guys are knocking down my door, then I didn't do my homework preparing. If I want an abundance of primers, I will stock up on primers, it is as simple as that.

I would rather be the guy that stocks up on primers so I can reload my own bullets, rather than the guy that STOCKS UP ON MATCHSTICKS so I can make my own primers.

I like to stockpile ammo for 7.62x39 @ 32,000 rounds and my .22 @ 30,000 rounds. I like to reload for rifle considering that I might get 4 reloads from each casing. so I stockpile 5000 rounds for each casing and try to stock enough primers and powder to reload every survival firearm that I have for 20,000 rounds EACH.

If I had gone through all the trouble of stockpiling that much ammo and reloading components, and I find myself OUT OF THAT MUCH AMMO.........Then I better at least save 1 bullet for myself.....because the 10 primers that I filled using 580 matchsticks, that took me a month to scrape....isn't going to do squat for me at that point.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnoldrew View Post
If you can't bring your brass stockpile with you, then you certainly can't take a lathe or hydraulic press with you.
I'm not really wanting to lug around a press. I am wanting a way to "in a pinch" to make a piece of brass.

shotgun hulls can be made from pvc piping ...

.38 spl rounds can be made from brass tubing.

what about rifle brass?
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