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Old 08-08-2009, 10:40 PM
230gr 230gr is offline
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Etsgetreal
Won't kill Giardia.
Neither chlorine (e.g., bleach) nor iodine alone is considered completely effective against Cryptosporidium, although they are partially effective against Giardia. Iodine should be allowed at least 30 minutes to kill Giardia. Chlorine is considered slightly better than iodine against Giardia. A more complete field solution that includes chemical disinfectants is to first filter the water, using a 0.2 micron ceramic cartridge pumped filter, followed by treatment with iodine or chlorine, thereby filtering out cryptosporidium, Giardia, and most bacteria, along with the larger viruses, while also using chemical disinfectant to address smaller viruses and bacteria that the filter cannot remove.
Also if you acetify the diluted bleach just before you use it, it increases the killing power by 50 to 200 times. Then it will even take out anthrax spores and they are tough.


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Be wary of the chem majors, they know how to make a mustard gas bombs in pressure released pencils
Good point Volgrath, best be on our good side.
Old 08-09-2009, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoyokat867 View Post
Calcium Hypochlorite is the solid form of pool "chlorine" that comes as tabs or granular. It contains other chemicals that "stabilize" the chlorine and help keep it in your pool longer.
Sodium Hypochlorite is the liquid form that comes in the 2.5 gal yellow jugs. It is pure except for the water dilutent. It doesn't last as long as the granular form because it lacks the stabilizer.
Well operators buy many jugs of the stuff to sanitize water.
Calcium Hypochlorite will kill mostly everything but cysts. The very common Cryptosporidium, Giardia Lambia type cysts will still be alive after you chlorinate the water. You still need to filter the water before you drink it. The filter will also remove most of the chlorine and toxic heavy metals. Cysts are large in comparison to bacteria and viruses. They are hard to kill(ranging from 7-10 microns in diameter) Chorine won't kill them off but they are easily removed by filtration. Even a cheap $3-$5 Pur or Britta 2 stage Pitcher Filter will remove 99% of microbial cysts.

That's pretty much how the municipalities purify water. Most use Chlorine and filtration. No boiling involved.

I carry 5 pounds of Calcium Hypochlorite in the tool box in the back of my truck.
Old 08-09-2009, 12:08 PM
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Careful, several of those shock bags contain chlorine stabilizer in them. If you have a chemical supply house nearby, you can get 30 and 55 gal drums of 100% Calcium Hypochlorite. That's what I buy to chlorinate my pool, plus you can find 30gal drums for about $50. The pool supply houses buy the drums, add filler to further save money then repackage it and sell it to you for a 1000% profit per pound.

Last edited by kahn; 08-09-2009 at 12:14 PM..
Old 08-10-2009, 10:18 PM
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Hey, I'm just a physics major. Every now and then I do some chemistry. Not anything to impressive, just getting violent reactions out of x easy to make compound to replace y commonly manufactured compound. Like making nuclear powered blimps using Cf248 as the heating element. Terrible idea in every way. Not to mention it wouldn't be worth it to make it work.
Old 08-12-2009, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbm555 View Post
I used to make my own beer and sterilized everything with bleach before use as to not contaminate the beer. One thing I learned was that it takes less chlorine to decontaminate cold water than it does hot water.

To get rid of the chlorine taste and smell all you have to do is let the water set for a day or so after sterilizing. The chlorine will evaporate off. This way you could always be decontaminating "the day after tomorrows" water while using water that has been sterilized AND had some/most of the chlorine removed. I've used this trick in fresh water aquariums when I've run out of dechlorinator.

Before anyone asks, I don't think aquarium declorinator is safe for human consumption.
Someone else probably covered this but if not... Hot water causes clorine to evaporate, any chlorine solution should be made with cold water.
Old 08-15-2009, 07:25 PM
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Thanks for the info. Definitely a good idea for long term storage.
Old 08-15-2009, 07:47 PM
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Anyone have a link on how to order a LifeStraw Family water filter. Like this http://www.eco3.co.za/lifestraw_water_purifier.htm

I can't find any in stock. Price is around $25

Filters a minimum of 15,000 litres of water - provides safe drinking water for a family for more than 2 years (calculated approximately on a family's consumption of 20 litres water/day)
Has a high flow rate.
Removes minimum 99.9999% of all bacteria.
Removes minimum 99.99% of all viruses
Removes minimum 99.9% of all parasites.
Works even on highly turbid water.
Complies with EPA guidelines for microbiological water purifiers
Old 08-15-2009, 08:14 PM
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I used to be a Certified Pool Operator...I wouldn't worry too much about inert ingredients found in pool shock...Aerate your disinfected water for at least a day, and you'll be fine.

Think about it...how many dopey little kids take pool water from a public pool into their mouths (UGH!) and play fountain? As much water as these kids end up choking down, choking on, I really don't think the manufacturers could stick anything toxic in it...you'd have dead little kids everywhere.

When a kid takes a crap in a public pool, you have to increase the chlorine to 20ppm (normal lvl is 5ppm) and let it sit for 24 hrs. Most pools don't do that, but those are the guidelines.
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:29 PM
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I wouldn't use any of the chlorine bleaches for anything, mainly because am rabid greenie and partly because am cheap.

I use hydrogen peroxide. Got a 2 litre (gee, 3 1/3 pints?) for sterilising my 25,000l (sorry, all I know is 1 pint = 600 mls, so 25000.000/.600 = ?) water tank, bought this 2l container 4 yrs ago. put 350mls into water tank to purify entire tank late every spring: so a bit over 1/2 pint. I use it in parts per million. It kills anything. Fine for the environment, you're not consuming any chlorine (and I wonder who will remember always to sterilies water a day ahead, and who will find they're out of water, find a stream, sterilise it and say 'oh, what the heck' and drink that chlorine after all?)

Anyway, just a thought. I've had that 2l container in the shed 4 yrs, still have heaps left. Is in liquid form - also requires a little safety knowledge for handling (um, a lot of safety knowledge or user go bye-bye to be honest.) If one had the safety knowledge one might think this was a good idea. If one hasn't, one's potentially creating a cute little explosion that'll eat a person like piranha...
Old 08-15-2009, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bridgierapa View Post
I wouldn't use any of the chlorine bleaches for anything, mainly because am rabid greenie and partly because am cheap.

I use hydrogen peroxide. Got a 2 litre (gee, 3 1/3 pints?) for sterilising my 25,000l (sorry, all I know is 1 pint = 600 mls, so 25000.000/.600 = ?) water tank, bought this 2l container 4 yrs ago. put 350mls into water tank to purify entire tank late every spring: so a bit over 1/2 pint. I use it in parts per million. It kills anything. Fine for the environment, you're not consuming any chlorine (and I wonder who will remember always to sterilies water a day ahead, and who will find they're out of water, find a stream, sterilise it and say 'oh, what the heck' and drink that chlorine after all?)

Anyway, just a thought. I've had that 2l container in the shed 4 yrs, still have heaps left. Is in liquid form - also requires a little safety knowledge for handling (um, a lot of safety knowledge or user go bye-bye to be honest.) If one had the safety knowledge one might think this was a good idea. If one hasn't, one's potentially creating a cute little explosion that'll eat a person like piranha...
I'm having a hard time reading your post. 1 US pint = 473 milliliter's

Hydrogen Peroxide is good for sterilizing but it's tricky to know if you've used enough. Some Ambulances are sterilized simply by filling it with a vapor of hydrogen peroxide then letting it air out.

35% hydrogen Peroxide is usually stored in a refrigerator. The guy that owned one of my homes before me opened his fridge and drank some hydrogen peroxide thinking it was water. It was 110 Degrees out and he just wasn't thinking. He had to be air lifted to the hospital. He actually died months later.

Chlorine is much easier to control and monitor the levels in water. Add enough to get the water to 3-5 parts per million to disinfect. Let it sit for an hour or more depending on how bad the water is. Then run the water through a carbon filter to remove most of the chlorine so you can't taste the chlorine .

For long term water storage you can check the chlorine levels 100's of times with a $5 pool or jacuzzi chlorine test kit.
Old 08-15-2009, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bridgierapa View Post
I use hydrogen peroxide. Got a 2 litre (gee, 3 1/3 pints?) for sterilising my 25,000l (sorry, all I know is 1 pint = 600 mls, so 25000.000/.600 = ?) water tank, bought this 2l container 4 yrs ago. put 350mls into water tank to purify entire tank late every spring: so a bit over 1/2 pint. I use it in parts per million. It kills anything. Fine for the environment, you're not consuming any chlorine (and I wonder who will remember always to sterilies water a day ahead, and who will find they're out of water, find a stream, sterilise it and say 'oh, what the heck' and drink that chlorine after all?)

Anyway, just a thought. I've had that 2l container in the shed 4 yrs, still have heaps left. Is in liquid form - also requires a little safety knowledge for handling ..


Hydrogen Peroxide if not handled appropriately will degrade to H2O and be useless for water treatment.
Old 08-15-2009, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by thelastboyscout View Post
Hydrogen Peroxide if not handled appropriately will degrade to H2O and be useless for water treatment.
True... Thats why I have enough new Calcium hypochlorite packs in granular form to treat 60,000 gallons of water. I found some 10 year old Calcium hypochlorite that was sitting in the desert heat in my shed that reaches over 115 degrees in the summer. The stuff tested very close to full strength. Some 2 1/2 year old 10% pool chlorine next to it was completely inactive.

Its sad to know that 1.3 billion people don't have access to clean water and 2.5 billion lack proper sewage, sanitation or even a toilet. In less than 20 years, it is estimated that demand for fresh water will exceed the world's supply by over 50 percent.

Someday the USA could be in the same situation that we see in third world countries.
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Old 08-16-2009, 01:03 PM
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You can also kill any pathogens and germs by placing a photo of Hillary Clinton next to the water storage vessel.
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Old 08-16-2009, 07:46 PM
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Thanks for your info people: had no idea hydrogen peroxide degraded to water...

Had no idea an American pint smaller than a British one... wonder what I'm supposed to do with American cook books? Thank goodness they mostly go in fluid ounces.

(Please tell me an American ounce is 28.13 grams or I'll pop.)

Old 11-05-2009, 01:05 PM
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i was wondering if you could turn calcium hypochlorite into sodium hypochlorite?
Old 11-05-2009, 01:56 PM
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No...........
Old 11-05-2009, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreyclay View Post
You can also kill any pathogens and germs by placing a photo of Hillary Clinton next to the water storage vessel.
Nasty Nazi Pelosi works as well .........
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Old 11-05-2009, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
turn calcium hypochlorite into sodium hypochlorite
You could Such_is_life but it is really not worth it. Calcium hypochlorite is as good or better for nearly every purpose and more stable in shelf life. All hypochlorites are sensitive oxidizers and break down rather easily in chemical manipulations. Did you have special reason for wanting the sodium salt?
Old 11-05-2009, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Bridgierapa
Please tell me an American ounce is 28.13 grams or I'll pop
You arent going to like this.
Fluid: There are 29.57 milliliters in one US fluid ounce . Note that this is for FLUID ounces, not dry ounces. Fluid ounces are a measure of volume, and so are milliliters. However, dry ounces are a measure of weight. There is a universal conversion between volume and weight: you must know the density of the material to go from milliliters to dry ounces.

Weight: One Ounce ( oz. ) = 28.349 grams (gr.). There are 177 grams in one fluid ounce of water. However, fluid ounces is a measure of volume and grams is a measure of mass (weight), so the answer is dependent on the density of the material in question.
This might help too.
Imperial pint
The imperial pint is equal one eighth of an imperial gallon. As from 1 January 2000 it ceased to be legal to use pints within the United Kingdom for economic, health, safety or administrative purposes except for the sale of milk in returnable bottles or for the dispensing of beer or cider.[2]
1 imperial pint = 1⁄8 imperial gallon

= 1⁄2 imperial quart

= 4 imperial gills

= 20 imperial fluid ounces

= 568.26125 millilitres (exactly)[3][4] ≈ 568 ml

≈ 34.677429099 cubic inches
≈ 1.2009499255 U.S. liquid pints
≈ 1.0320567435 U.S. dry pints
≈ 1.25 lbs of water at 62 F (16.7 C)

United States liquid pint
A label on a bottle of salad dressing showing "1 PT".
The United States liquid pint is equal one eighth of a United States liquid gallon. It is used commonly in the United States.
1 U.S. liquid pint = 1⁄8 U.S. liquid gallon
= 1⁄2 U.S. liquid quart
= 2 U.S. cups

= 4 U.S. fluid gills
= 16 U.S. fluid ounces
= 28.875 cubic inches (exactly)[5]

= 473.176473 millilitres (exactly)[6] ≈ 473 ml

≈ 0.83267418463 imperial pints
≈ 0.85936700738 U.S. dry pints
= 1.041 lbs of water at 62 F (16.7 C)
Old 11-09-2009, 09:41 PM
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Question: Does the bleach/chlorine additive mixed into potable water containers need to stay active to be effective?
or..
does the bleach/chlorine kill the bad stuff in the container then goes away and when you consume the water, you're drinking pure, clean H2O?

Did that make any sense?

elgin
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