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Old 01-22-2012, 10:30 PM
Lifted Lifted is offline
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Question Looking for a 9mm/.380/.40 cal on the budget



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Hello guys

Been doing research for probably a week now. The more I know the more I don't know, that's how I feel

I will be buying my first gun for myself and one for my dad (his first as well), in the light of unfortunate events that happened to him (long story short, he got robbed and beat up, etc.)

I'm interested in buying a pistol for defensive purposes. After reading MASS amounts of literature and articles online I'm stumped.

I'm starting to lean away from 9mm because people say "it's not enough", but of course what do I know? (home defense purposes by the way). Definitely leaning away from .22 for sure though.

The gun that seems to hit my ballpark price range is Sig Sauer P250 primarily based on reliability, accuracy, and about $375 price range. I would say I'm more interested in .40 version (they have 9mm, .380, .40, .45)

I read great reviews about P250 compared to other pistols, but please give me advice if you know something COMPARABLE to this gun in under $400?

I'm only unsure of this gun due to the fact it's a double action pistol, so the trigger time is delayed...so I'm not sure what you would advice for me. If you think it's perfectly fine, or you advice against it please let me know.

Glock 17 seems to be out of my range, plus the grip itself is kind of weird in my hand due to the angle & price range is above what I can afford.

I'm very open to suggestions, especially this being my first gun. I'm looking for something reliable and accurate. That's my main concern.



Best regards.
Old 01-23-2012, 01:55 AM
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Congrats and welcome.

First off, I'd wanna know what kind of experience you and your father have with firearms.
Also,In terms of handguns, what have you shot?
Do you plan on concealing the handgun and carrying it, or is for mostly home defense?

As for the caliber debate, my opinion is that the 9mm is perfectly sufficient for the task of self defense, given modern ballistics with advanced defense ammunition, and because of the added carrying capacity in most 9mm handguns versus their larger derivatives. Also, one might add that if someone is less proficient with firearms, a 9mm is not a very large beast to overcome in terms of recoil. You're less likely to develop bad habits while learning to shoot in my opinion.

I have carried several different calibers from .380, 9x18, 9mm Luger, and .40. I've shot all kinds of guns from single action, SA/DA, and DAO, with various differing triggers and frame constructions. I finally settled on a Glock 19 as my full-time carry gun. I picked it up used, with night sights, 3 mags, and in almost untouched condition for 425 at a local gun show. I like the lack of a manual safety, lack of a magazine disconnect, and simple, consistent, and reliable trigger that Glock offers. Short draw up, glass break snap, and BOOM, every time. I will say though, it is a proficient pistol shooter's gun. No room for error when all it takes is one crisp pull of the trigger to go off, or having to pull the trigger to take down. You have to follow your cardinal rules of gun safety!

With regards to the P250, I've only dinked around with it at the shop, and not actually shot it. I like that you can swap out calibers and frame size if you want. I was wary of its DAO trigger (a real hit or miss in the industry IMO), but I found it to be consistent and not overly heavy. With prices online coming out to under 400 dollars, in a different world, I'd have snatched one up. Also, it's strange cousin, the Sig SP2022 is a SA/DA full size alternative that you may like also. (399 at budsguns)

Tell you what I really like also is the Ruger SR9c. My buddy just got one for 425 at our local GS. Again, I was very intrigued with this gun when I first saw it. It has a manual safety, enormous chamber indicator, and magazine disconnect safety, but it can also convert from 13rd compact to fullsize by swapping out with a 17rd extended grip mag. I like that. Shooting it was a blast too. I was able to rail off triple taps like magic. Try doing that with your grand daddy's .45.

So after that long winded reply, I'd have to say that given the circumstances, I'd recommend a 9mm, compact handgun that is reliable, and relatively cheap. Without skimping on quality and reliability, everything I can think of comes right in at 400 dollars. I suggest spending a hair more for a trustworthy pistol. Glock 19's, Ruger SR9c's, Sig P250's, Springfield XD's... they all have something to offer. Trick is finding what works for you. Try shooting them all at a rental range and decide after that.

Hope that helped..
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:57 AM
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In addition to the Sig 2022, Ruger SR9/SR40 and their compact variants, you can also check out the Kahr CW9/CW40, CM9/CM40 which are Kahr's "value" line all under $400 now.

I personally own a Ruger SR9C and a Kahr CM9 and can recommend either. If I didn't have an SR9C I would probably have a Sig 2022.

BTW, if you want power, reliability, and simple sa/da operation, there are lots of revolvers in .357 Magnum that would do just fine in a home defense role.
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:41 AM
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I own a P250 Compact in 9mm as a concealed carry gun. I think it's great. In 9mm, the lightness of it being a plastic-fantastic pistol doesn't negatively impact my ability to come back on target. In .40S&W, I doubt I would enjoy shooting it as much. For me, it had the balance of being small enough, yet able to carry 15+1 rounds.

My only complaint is the long trigger pull of the DAO. Even then, it's just a different thing as opposed to a bad thing. Try some snap caps and get used to shooting Double Action Only. You'll forget the long pull in no time.


If you don't like the P250, check out the Ruger P-series of handguns. They're inexpensive, but they are absolute bricks. Shooting .40S&W in that platform is a breeze due to the weight. They are a great choice for a first (and/or only) handgun. They remind me a lot of the Warsaw Pact handguns; Cheap, tough as nails, and plug-ugly. If you go this route, only buy factory mags. They're expensive, but like the gun they go with, they just don't fail.
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:53 AM
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Agree on the Ruger P-series for home defense purposes.
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Old 01-23-2012, 11:01 AM
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You could get two highpoints for the same price...... The only thing I can think to add is if you plan on carrying a firearm know how to use it and be comfortable with the weapon you choose, so I would go to a gun shop and get a feel for whichever firearm you choose. Maybe they have a range you can test fire it at. If you plan on carrying concealed then the license will be extra too. Just food for thought.
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primalpriest View Post
You could get two highpoints for the same price......
Having shot a Hi-Point 9mm and even debated buying one, I think I'd look elsewhere for a first handgun. It was the most uncomfortable semi-auto I've ever shot. (I'm not a "Hi-Point hater" either - I just bought a 995TS carbine.)

I bought a Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm sub-compact a little over a year ago, and I like it a lot, but the price tag was on the upper edge of what I wanted to spend, so I can't really recommend it as a "budget" gun. I also considered a Bersa Thunder Pro 9 based on feel, price and good reviews, but I haven't shot one.
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WashingtonIrving View Post
Congrats and welcome.

First off, I'd wanna know what kind of experience you and your father have with firearms.
Also,In terms of handguns, what have you shot?
Do you plan on concealing the handgun and carrying it, or is for mostly home defense?

As for the caliber debate, my opinion is that the 9mm is perfectly sufficient for the task of self defense, given modern ballistics with advanced defense ammunition, and because of the added carrying capacity in most 9mm handguns versus their larger derivatives. Also, one might add that if someone is less proficient with firearms, a 9mm is not a very large beast to overcome in terms of recoil. You're less likely to develop bad habits while learning to shoot in my opinion.

I have carried several different calibers from .380, 9x18, 9mm Luger, and .40. I've shot all kinds of guns from single action, SA/DA, and DAO, with various differing triggers and frame constructions. I finally settled on a Glock 19 as my full-time carry gun. I picked it up used, with night sights, 3 mags, and in almost untouched condition for 425 at a local gun show. I like the lack of a manual safety, lack of a magazine disconnect, and simple, consistent, and reliable trigger that Glock offers. Short draw up, glass break snap, and BOOM, every time. I will say though, it is a proficient pistol shooter's gun. No room for error when all it takes is one crisp pull of the trigger to go off, or having to pull the trigger to take down. You have to follow your cardinal rules of gun safety!

With regards to the P250, I've only dinked around with it at the shop, and not actually shot it. I like that you can swap out calibers and frame size if you want. I was wary of its DAO trigger (a real hit or miss in the industry IMO), but I found it to be consistent and not overly heavy. With prices online coming out to under 400 dollars, in a different world, I'd have snatched one up. Also, it's strange cousin, the Sig SP2022 is a SA/DA full size alternative that you may like also. (399 at budsguns)

Tell you what I really like also is the Ruger SR9c. My buddy just got one for 425 at our local GS. Again, I was very intrigued with this gun when I first saw it. It has a manual safety, enormous chamber indicator, and magazine disconnect safety, but it can also convert from 13rd compact to fullsize by swapping out with a 17rd extended grip mag. I like that. Shooting it was a blast too. I was able to rail off triple taps like magic. Try doing that with your grand daddy's .45.

So after that long winded reply, I'd have to say that given the circumstances, I'd recommend a 9mm, compact handgun that is reliable, and relatively cheap. Without skimping on quality and reliability, everything I can think of comes right in at 400 dollars. I suggest spending a hair more for a trustworthy pistol. Glock 19's, Ruger SR9c's, Sig P250's, Springfield XD's... they all have something to offer. Trick is finding what works for you. Try shooting them all at a rental range and decide after that.

Hope that helped..
ABSOLUTELY! Thank you for every bit of information I will definitely check out the other guns you have suggested! Thank you for being very detailed

My purpose is really home defense, I'm not playing to carry the gun outside my home (but I can, being in Arizona)

I've shot before but, really it's my first gun, so my experience is very limited. I'm planning on taking classes when I buy the gun. Safety and skill is everything to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spork View Post
In addition to the Sig 2022, Ruger SR9/SR40 and their compact variants, you can also check out the Kahr CW9/CW40, CM9/CM40 which are Kahr's "value" line all under $400 now.

I personally own a Ruger SR9C and a Kahr CM9 and can recommend either. If I didn't have an SR9C I would probably have a Sig 2022.

BTW, if you want power, reliability, and simple sa/da operation, there are lots of revolvers in .357 Magnum that would do just fine in a home defense role.
Thank you so much! I will definitely check out the Kahrs and Ruger. Seems like both of you guys suggested Ruger SR9, so I will definitely check that one out throughly.

What would you say is different between Kahr CM9 and SR9C for you? What do you lean to more?

I read SR40 had a very tight/hard trigger in the past (when it came out in 2011), did they ever fix that issue? If they did I wonder how to find that out when I'm buying it online

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinfoil Hat View Post
I own a P250 Compact in 9mm as a concealed carry gun. I think it's great. In 9mm, the lightness of it being a plastic-fantastic pistol doesn't negatively impact my ability to come back on target. In .40S&W, I doubt I would enjoy shooting it as much. For me, it had the balance of being small enough, yet able to carry 15+1 rounds.

My only complaint is the long trigger pull of the DAO. Even then, it's just a different thing as opposed to a bad thing. Try some snap caps and get used to shooting Double Action Only. You'll forget the long pull in no time.


If you don't like the P250, check out the Ruger P-series of handguns. They're inexpensive, but they are absolute bricks. Shooting .40S&W in that platform is a breeze due to the weight. They are a great choice for a first (and/or only) handgun. They remind me a lot of the Warsaw Pact handguns; Cheap, tough as nails, and plug-ugly. If you go this route, only buy factory mags. They're expensive, but like the gun they go with, they just don't fail.
Thank you!

Just did a quick search on google

In P Series .40 cal came up with P91 and P94. Is there particular one you like in P-Series personally?

Looks are not a problem to me for sure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneeky View Post
Agree on the Ruger P-series for home defense purposes.

Thanks for the input

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primalpriest View Post
You could get two highpoints for the same price...... The only thing I can think to add is if you plan on carrying a firearm know how to use it and be comfortable with the weapon you choose, so I would go to a gun shop and get a feel for whichever firearm you choose. Maybe they have a range you can test fire it at. If you plan on carrying concealed then the license will be extra too. Just food for thought.
I agree with you, I'm definitely will be taking classes/practicing with the gun. I will have to look for these rentals around town, hopefully they have the guns I want to actually try

I'm in AZ, last year they passed the law to allow concealed carrying with no license.

Yeeeeeeep.....it's CRAZY!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inazone View Post
Having shot a Hi-Point 9mm and even debated buying one, I think I'd look elsewhere for a first handgun. It was the most uncomfortable semi-auto I've ever shot. (I'm not a "Hi-Point hater" either - I just bought a 995TS carbine.)

I bought a Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm sub-compact a little over a year ago, and I like it a lot, but the price tag was on the upper edge of what I wanted to spend, so I can't really recommend it as a "budget" gun. I also considered a Bersa Thunder Pro 9 based on feel, price and good reviews, but I haven't shot one.


I believe you, I wanted to buy a Beretta from the get go (always wanted one), then checked the price tag and said...FORGET IT :-))

Anything decent from Beretta is in like a $600 range (new)



Thanks again guys, you have been very helpful
Old 01-23-2012, 10:11 PM
StoneWallAdam StoneWallAdam is offline
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Sorry to hear about your father.

My advice, research the FNP9 because it fits your budget. IMHO, FN makes a great high quality product.

Also, as already stated, try to fire several pistols before buying if possible.
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneWallAdam View Post
Sorry to hear about your father.

My advice, research the FNP9 because it fits your budget. IMHO, FN makes a great high quality product.

Also, as already stated, try to fire several pistols before buying if possible.


Nice! Haven't seen that one yet, but heard about it. Will do, my friend.

Thank you, honestly it could've been worse so we are BLESSED. They cut his hand with a knife (could've stabbed him to death, since 2 had a knife), tried to take his car, but luckily couldn't.

I just wonder you know: did they have a gun? Would it help if my dad had one then?

That's why I'm half and half in carrying it outside of my home. Home defense I'm perfectly fine with
Old 01-24-2012, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted View Post
What would you say is different between Kahr CM9 and SR9C for you? What do you lean to more?
I originally bought the SR9C to use as a concealed carry gun but it's a little too big for that for me.

The Kahr CM9 is just about the smallest 9mm auto you can get. It's just a tiny bit bigger than a Ruger LCP / Kel-Tek P3at .380, but you have the advantage of a 9mm.

The Kahr is good for pocket carry for me as opposed to the SR9C which is definitely carry-able but better suited to an inside the waistband holster.

The Kahrs are slimmer with a single stack magazine, but that limits you to 6-7 rounds. The SR9c comes with a 10 round and 17 round mags with a grip extension on the 17 rounder that makes it a full size SR9 grip.

I keep both because I like the Kahr for it's tiny size and ease of carry and the SR9C for it's high capacity in a small package.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted View Post
I read SR40 had a very tight/hard trigger in the past (when it came out in 2011), did they ever fix that issue?
I never heard of a particular issue. The SR40/SR9 and the compact versions are almost identical inside.

There is a break in period on them. After about 200 rounds the trigger on mine went from a bit stiff to pretty smooth. I really like the trigger on my SR9C now.

The triggers on the Kahrs are smooth as glass right out of the box.
Old 01-24-2012, 01:14 AM
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Do yourself a favor and try to find a used Glock in good condition.. One can be had for around $400-$425 all day..Simple, easy to use, no bull**** safety that might end up getting an inexperienced gun owner killed if they freak out.. And 9mm is plenty, dont let anyone tell you different.. JUST PRACTICE PRACTICE AND PRACTICE SOME MORE!!! Its all about shot placement and good quality ammo
Old 01-24-2012, 09:26 AM
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I applaud your decision but there are a few things you need to know to become a responsible gun owner.

First thing, a gun is not a magically thing that makes all bad guys wet themselves and flee in terror. Sometimes it does work but sometimes it doesn’t. I’m not trying to be rude but rather prepare you for all possibilities. If you pull a gun then you need to be prepared to use it and that includes taking a life to protect you and your loved ones. Harsh I know but so is a visit to a hospital or worse.

Owning a firearm is only part of the process learning how to use it safely and properly is another. As a first time gun owner I’d recommend something in a 9mm. It’s cheap to practice with and you can buy all kinds of rounds to use in it. Just make sure it fits YOUR hand and you like it because it is your $$.

You may want to expand your handgun search to include the used market. Check with your local gun store and pawn shop for bargains but take a knowledgeable friend a long. (I say that cause the Beretta 92s have been around a long time and I think you could stumble upon a deal.) Personally I’d recommend pistol with a loaded chamber indicator that way you know when a round is in the chamber. My Sig 2022 9mm has such a feature but I don’t think it is a standard on all 2022s. Whatever you decide one make sure to practice, practice, practice. Know your gun, how it works and how to clean it.

One last thing, do you have children? If you do then you need to invest in a safe. It doesn’t have to be huge and expensive. They make small safes just for pistols but I’m unsure what they sell for.

Sorry for the long post. Best of luck in your search.
Old 01-24-2012, 09:30 AM
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In P Series .40 cal came up with P91 and P94. Is there particular one you like in P-Series personally?
In all honesty... nope. I mainly chose the P-Series because I had a PC carbine coming in from out of state. I had handled and shot a P-series in 9mm, and knew that the weight would make shooting .40 a dream.
Old 01-24-2012, 09:47 AM
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Ruger P-95. Works all the time. A little big for some but always goes bang.
Old 01-24-2012, 10:08 AM
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Taraus provides affordable options in both revolver and semi-auto. I use a PT92-AF and it stacks up well in both accuracy and reliability with the Berreta 92. $400 new with two 17 round mags and a lock built in. The judge is also an option.
Old 01-24-2012, 10:37 AM
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As mentioned, nothing wrong with a 9mm especially using modern ammo.

In your original post, you mention the possibility of a .380. I have never had much of an opinion on mouse guns up until a week ago when a buddy of mine was shot with one. He said it hurt like hell, but the thing that ****ed him off the most was that no one believed him that he was shot, as there was no blood. Finally after someone cut open his pants, they pulled back a little flap of skin, and there sat the bullet. So while it did hurt, it surly wasn't enough to stop him in his tracks. Yes, I know that this is only one instance, but it is also the only one that I have seen first hand. YMMV...


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Old 01-24-2012, 04:03 PM
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I second getting a used Glock. 9mm is fine, with good ammo- when the good ammo runs dry and youre shooting target ammo is where 9mm fails miserably.

I'd recomend a Glock 19, midsize 9mm or Glock 23, midsize 40. 40 cal can be pretty 'snappy' recoiling though, not good for novices. 9mm way better... Ammos cheaper.

I had a SIG P5, same as P225, good gun only 8+1 and not really a CCW. Get a GLOCK- I felt the same way with the grip angle on the Gen 1. I have many Glocks now, LOVE THEM! And didnt pay more than 450. Check out Gunbroker.com for a used one- send the seller a money order, they send the gun to a local dealer, you go 'n pick up. Easy peasy.
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Old 01-24-2012, 04:34 PM
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Police trade-in Glocks can be had for $350 on Gunbroker all day long. Right now there are a lot of well-broken in CZ75's and Hi-Powers on Gunbroker as well.
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitech_hick View Post
As mentioned, nothing wrong with a 9mm especially using modern ammo.

In your original post, you mention the possibility of a .380. I have never had much of an opinion on mouse guns up until a week ago when a buddy of mine was shot with one. He said it hurt like hell, but the thing that ****ed him off the most was that no one believed him that he was shot, as there was no blood. Finally after someone cut open his pants, they pulled back a little flap of skin, and there sat the bullet. So while it did hurt, it surly wasn't enough to stop him in his tracks. Yes, I know that this is only one instance, but it is also the only one that I have seen first hand. YMMV...


hick
Wow, where was he wounded, and from what range?
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