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Old 01-22-2012, 01:24 PM
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Lightbulb .410 good survival weapon among others



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Alright so ive done some thinkn and compared the different guns i already had in my closet for which would be a decent survival gun. mainly based off of caliber. and i have a single shot rossie .410 shot gun, and i belive that will be my B.O.B./survival gun of choice. and i wanted to share some thoughts and maybe brainstorm any other ideas.

my pros and cons of .410

PROS

-very light managble recoil

-versitile loads(bird shot for birds, heavy birdshot for rabbits and squirrels, slugs and buckshot for defense as well as deer and such sized game)

-the .410 shells are not much heavier or bigger size wize then some rifle rounds. not heavy like 12 or 20 ga rounds/ so much easier to pack with out regret

- since its a smaller shell smaller barrel and trigger housing and such which can mean lighter weapon over all. (my single shot has 28 inch barrel and wieghts in at around 4 lbs.)

CONS

-only true cons i can come across is .410 is not a millitary round so may be hard to come cross if the SHTF

- .410 does not have accuracy out to any range beyound 100 yards with slugs. so not a MBR by no means but i will not be going after the fight as it seams others due i belive i wana stow away some where till the s*** clears. this is simply means of food procureing as well as defenseive weaponry not offensive.

-and only other con i have is my .410 is single shot so ive got once chance to defend my self so if any platoon or milita comes after me ill have to do as such in "The Patriot" ambush with muzzloaders. haha its possible
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BugOutBoy91 View Post
Alright so ive done some thinkn and compared the different guns i already had in my closet for which would be a decent survival gun. mainly based off of caliber. and i have a single shot rossie .410 shot gun, and i belive that will be my B.O.B./survival gun of choice. and i wanted to share some thoughts and maybe brainstorm any other ideas.

my pros and cons of .410

PROS

-very light managble recoil

-versitile loads(bird shot for birds, heavy birdshot for rabbits and squirrels, slugs and buckshot for defense as well as deer and such sized game)

-the .410 shells are not much heavier or bigger size wize then some rifle rounds. not heavy like 12 or 20 ga rounds/ so much easier to pack with out regret

- since its a smaller shell smaller barrel and trigger housing and such which can mean lighter weapon over all. (my single shot has 28 inch barrel and wieghts in at around 4 lbs.)

CONS

-only true cons i can come across is .410 is not a millitary round so may be hard to come cross if the SHTF

-and only other con i have is my .410 is single shot so ive got once chance to defend my self so if any platoon or milita comes after me ill have to do as such in "The Patriot" ambush with muzzloaders. haha its possible
I carry a .22LR/.410 over under in my pack, and I think it is a great gun for the reasons you mention.

However, I think the primary disadvantage of a .410 is when shooting shotshell. Depending on the exact shot, the pattern will either be smaller or have greater spacing between hits. This is the primary compromise with the .410 in my opinion. However, you may be able to shoot .45 LC out of your .410 depending on its barrel, and that is a huge pro in my opinion.
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:38 PM
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i never thought about that but it does make since now they have the tarus judge pistol and rifles tha are revolvers you can change out 410 or 45-10 colt i belive is what it is. ive never had any experinc with that caliber. whats the 411 (info) on it?
Old 01-22-2012, 01:45 PM
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i never thought about that but it does make since now they have the tarus judge pistol and rifles tha are revolvers you can change out 410 or 45-10 colt i belive is what it is. ive never had any experinc with that caliber. whats the 411 (info) on it?
The Judge is actually a .45 Colt capable of firing .410 shells because of an extended cylinder. I would not recommend shooting .45 Colt ammo out of a .410 (even if they fit in the chamber) because of the choke. And, it was not made to do that. I don't know what kind .410 you have but, NEF shotguns can be fitted at the factory with a .45/.410 barrel (http://www.hr1871.com/Support/accessoryProgram.asp) for $96.00.

Al
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:45 PM
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i never thought about that but it does make since now they have the tarus judge pistol and rifles tha are revolvers you can change out 410 or 45-10 colt i belive is what it is. ive never had any experinc with that caliber. whats the 411 (info) on it?
Well first you will want to check that it can be fired out of your gun. After you verify that you can fire it safely, you can use it to take game as large as bear. I have not personally shot it because .410 slugs suit me fine and the .45 LC shells are fairly expensive.

It is a semi-rare cartridge, but there are always 1 or 2 boxes on the shelf in my local store.

I am sure others on the forum have much more experience with it. I primarily think of it as a lever gun and single-action revolver cartridge, but I would venture to guess that it is available it many platforms.
Old 01-22-2012, 02:04 PM
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my rossi is the same as a nef single shot both are very similar almost identical. however i do not intend to use 45 colt out of my 410 rossi but maybe for future refrence ive been eyeing a rossi 45 colt with the extened cylinder for the 410 shell. its a revolver rifle

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Old 01-22-2012, 02:14 PM
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my rossi is the same as a nef single shot both are very similar almost identical. however i do not intend to use 45 colt out of my 410 rossi but maybe for future refrence ive been eyeing a rossi 45 colt with the extened cylinder for the 410 shell. its a revolver rifle

The Rossi .410 single shot is just a .410. The barrel I was talking about from NEF is a rifled .45 Colt/.410 barrel that they (NEF) will fit to your frame specifically to shoot .410 and .45 Colt ammo. You should not fire .45 Colt out of any .410 that is not specifically made to do so. Shooting a .452 diameter bullet through the choked barrel on a .410 shotgun, at the least, will ruin the choke and, at the worst, could cause a catastrophic failure (blow up the gun).

I have a Super Commanche .410/.45Colt pistol that is made to fire both.
The judge and all of these other revolvers they are making now, will fire both also. But, they are made to do so.

Be safe guys.
Al
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Old 01-22-2012, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BugOutBoy91 View Post
Alright so ive done some thinkn and compared the different guns i already had in my closet for which would be a decent survival gun. mainly based off of caliber. and i have a single shot rossie .410 shot gun, and i belive that will be my B.O.B./survival gun of choice. and i wanted to share some thoughts and maybe brainstorm any other ideas.

my pros and cons of .410

PROS

-very light managble recoil

-versitile loads(bird shot for birds, heavy birdshot for rabbits and squirrels, slugs and buckshot for defense as well as deer and such sized game)

-the .410 shells are not much heavier or bigger size wize then some rifle rounds. not heavy like 12 or 20 ga rounds/ so much easier to pack with out regret

- since its a smaller shell smaller barrel and trigger housing and such which can mean lighter weapon over all. (my single shot has 28 inch barrel and wieghts in at around 4 lbs.)

CONS

-only true cons i can come across is .410 is not a millitary round so may be hard to come cross if the SHTF

- .410 does not have accuracy out to any range beyound 100 yards with slugs. so not a MBR by no means but i will not be going after the fight as it seams others due i belive i wana stow away some where till the s*** clears. this is simply means of food procureing as well as defenseive weaponry not offensive.

-and only other con i have is my .410 is single shot so ive got once chance to defend my self so if any platoon or milita comes after me ill have to do as such in "The Patriot" ambush with muzzloaders. haha its possible
For Self Defense ?? Hell NO, when there are MUCH better platforms out there. Even a 20 gauge is better, and not much recoil. Still. not my main choice for SD .. better with an AR15 or get a Bullpup for better concealment in a .223 and a 9mm for a side arm.
Old 01-22-2012, 03:07 PM
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I like the .410 for a survival gun. I have a double barrel .410 pistol that is mighty handy in a pack and is very versatile. Buckshot is better than expected from this gun, oh and the .45lc shells fire from it too. I wouldn't mind it a bit for hunting self defense for survival. It is quieter than a larger shotgun and lighter. The .410 is a military caliber btw. The brits had enfields that were .410 that they used for prisoner guards and jungle enviroments.
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Old 01-22-2012, 03:14 PM
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The shotgun is not rated for the pressure of a 45 colt so the answer is never ever shoot a 45 colt out of a shotgun.
Old 01-22-2012, 04:58 PM
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I will respectively disagree.............!!!

The .410 bore is not a true shotgun and seems to have been developed to solve a problem which didn't exist, or perhaps to take advantage of using a surplus gun.

More recently it has become a marketing gimmick for some 45 Colt chambered guns. Before that, it was pretty much the last gun a survivalist would select. They are more difficult to down fast moving small game and birds, which is the primary purpose for hunting with a shotgun. In comparison to other real shotguns it's woefully inadequate, as well as a single shot for hunting or defense.

These are small, light, inexpensive sub-load type guns, that may have a specific valued purpose (I doubt it) during normal times, but in a survival situation, we should consider carrying what would most likely fill various roles we feel are desirable and for which would serve best. For capability, cost, training skills, ease of use and provide the advantage of increase success.....the 12 gauge shotgun wins hands down to any other shotgun. If we are cheap......the 12 gauge pump is the best way to go.......if we are really cheap, we can get a Mossberg 500 series or Remington 870 shotgun.

When you are in a survival situation (otherwise why do we need a "survival gun"), we also need every advantage we can reasonably get. A 12 gauge Remington pump doesn't weigh that much more than any other single shot shotgun. The ammo does weigh more, but the results obtained with the 12 gauge will usually require less rounds being fired, and often cleaner 1st round kills. And the list of differences and justifications can go on and on.

With so many advantages of the 12 gauge over a 16 gauge, 20 gauge or .410 bore, and so many disadvantages of the .410 bore.....I just can't imagine why, between shotguns, the 12 gauge shotgun would not be the 1st choice for a survivalist and the .410 bore as the last!

............and now, let the flaming begin!!!

Best Regards.....Eagle Six
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:02 PM
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I can. I know too many guys who have blown out their shoulder from hunting with a 12 ga over the years. They eventually opt for the 20. I own ONLY 20 gauges because of my gender, lack of strength, size etc.
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:12 PM
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I can. I know too many guys who have blown out their shoulder from hunting with a 12 ga over the years. They eventually opt for the 20. I own ONLY 20 gauges because of my gender, lack of strength, size etc.
Maybe so kris. However I have been doing this shooting, instructor, hunting thing for over 50 years and never have had anyone, man, women, or child, blow out their shoulder shooting a 12 gauge.....that is foolish. Bruised by the recoil, of course some have and they either neglected to learn the right way, had a gun way out of size for them, maybe shoot to many rounds of skeet that day, or maybe should play golf rather than shoot shotguns.

I here that old recoil thing a lot as a "Good" choice, or even worse as the "Only" choice for selecting a 410 over a 12 gauge. Bull hockey.....sorry!!! I respect you have a right to your opinion, but I'm not buying the blown out shoulder thing.

Best Regards......Eagle Six
Old 01-22-2012, 05:13 PM
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Again I agree 12 ga. is the way to go.
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:15 PM
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I have a Rossi .410/.22lr that I carry in the box on my 4-wheeler so I always have a hunting gun with me. I love mine and wouldn't be without it.

Now if you want a .410/ .45Colt gun, NEF still sells this.

Survivor® | .410/45 Colt

http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotg...s/survivor.asp

And yes .45 Colt ammo isn't as common as 9mm, but it is far from being "rare".
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:19 PM
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Maybe so kris. However I have been doing this shooting, instructor, hunting thing for over 50 years and never have had anyone, man, women, or child, blow out their shoulder shooting a 12 gauge.....that is foolish. Bruised by the recoil, of course some have and they either neglected to learn the right way, had a gun way out of size for them, maybe shoot to many rounds of skeet that day, or maybe should play golf rather than shoot shotguns.

I here that old recoil thing a lot as a "Good" choice, or even worse as the "Only" choice for selecting a 410 over a 12 gauge. Bull hockey.....sorry!!! I respect you have a right to your opinion, but I'm not buying the blown out shoulder thing.

Best Regards......Eagle Six
I would .. osteoporosis, fractured clavicle years ago .. The 20 has less recoil and effective enough in a SD in the home with tactical 00 Buck . I know another woman given bad advice to shoot her deceased husbands 12 ga from the hip. She permanently injured her wrist.

The blown out shoulders was from YEARS of use. I know two guys who had extensive rotator cuff surgery, and now use 20.
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:28 PM
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I would .. osteoporosis, fractured clavicle years ago .. The 20 has less recoil and effective enough in a SD in the home with tactical 00 Buck . I know another woman given bad advice to shoot her deceased husbands 12 ga from the hip. She permanently injured her wrist.


The blown out shoulders was from YEARS of use. I know two guys who had extensive rotator cuff surgery, and now uses 20.
OK, kris, respectfully I ask....did you develop your osteoporosis fracture clavicle years ago, from shooting the 12 gauge shotgun? I would think, shooting from the hip would fall under the.......

Quote:
neglected to learn the right way
I think the 20 gauge would be a better choice over the 16 gauge and the 410. For folks who have massive physical injuries, perhaps any shotgun would be a poor choice over a 22LR rifle or some form of a handgun.

Best Regards......Eagle Six
Old 01-22-2012, 05:36 PM
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OK, kris, respectfully I ask....did you develop your osteoporosis fracture clavicle years ago, from shooting the 12 gauge shotgun? I would think, shooting from the hip would fall under the.......



I think the 20 gauge would be a better choice over the 16 gauge and the 410. For folks who have massive physical injuries, perhaps any shotgun would be a poor choice over a 22LR rifle or some form of a handgun.

Best Regards......Eagle Six
Not me from shooting, but I would NOW if I used the 12. Slip on gel pads work great on my rifles *Shooters Friend* cost about $20.00. I prefer a .22WMR waay over the standard .22

also because of my size, I prefer a youth stock on my rifles for a shorter LOP.
Old 01-22-2012, 05:52 PM
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Not me from shooting, but I would NOW if I used the 12. Slip on gel pads work great on my rifles *Shooters Friend* cost about $20.00. I prefer a .22WMR waay over the standard .22

also because of my size, I prefer a youth stock on my rifles for a shorter LOP.
I agree, a shooting pad does not reduced the gun recoil, but it does reduce the felt recoil and that is what is most concerning to a lot of shooters. Some of them are more effective than others, but all that I'm aware of reduce, at least some degree, of felt recoil.

As to your other point about your size and LOP (length of pull, length from the face of the trigger to the outside edge face of the but plate/pad). I think most factory rifles and shotguns are to long in the LOP for most shooters. I don't use a youth model stock, but prefer from .5 to 1.25" less LOP from the average (which I think is 13.5 inches) length factory stock depending of the rifle/shotgun.

Concerning the 22WMR over the 22LR......that is not my choice, but I'm not arguing with your choice.

Best Regards......Eagle Six
Old 01-22-2012, 07:04 PM
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I think the OP makes good points about the .410. However, as a survival round, the .410 is unfortunately a poor choice in my opinion:

1) Shotshells are disproportionally expensive versus 12 gauge. This means they are more expensive than necessary to stockpile.

2) Less power and range versus 12 gauge against people and large animals.

3) If the SHTF, you are less likely to run across shells for a .410.
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