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Old 01-11-2012, 09:17 PM
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Default Do EMP's kill cars?



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Ok fellow preppers, I assume you guys are more knowledgable than I am.
I have read articles that said most cars, pickups, trucks etc....built after 1985 would be dead in the wate if there was an EMP.
Other articles say that it will only effect a very small amount of vehicles. If there in a garage or something then their pretty well guaranteed to be safe.
So there the debate. Let me know what you guys think and why.
How do you protect a new vehicle against failure from an EMP?
Old 01-11-2012, 09:23 PM
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The government has actually conducted tests on this subject. While some newer cars get killed others still drive but experience other electronic problems. If an EMP attack occurs a car would be nice but you may get attacked on a constant basis by those hoping to get it or something. Having a car will be the least of your worries if we get hit by an EMP I think.
Old 01-11-2012, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Einrich View Post
Having a car will be the least of your worries if we get hit by an EMP I think.
I don't exactly disagree with you but it does depend on where you live.
New York City vs Nowhere Western Kansas are night and day for the life threatening scenarios after an EMP.
I am concerned with protecting the vehicle because I travel quite a bit for work. I am often 100+ miles from home and one of my greatest concerns is being able to get back home to my family if an EMP took place.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:35 PM
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Yes. No. And maybe.

There are too many variables to give a blanket answer. Which make and age of car, how close was it and what was its orientation to the EMP, what were the surroundings, was the car running or off... Some cars may be destroyed, some may have no problems, some may be repairable, or be fixed if you just force the internal computers to reboot. There is no way to really tell...
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:39 PM
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Here are my thoughts on the subject.
The bottom line is no one really knows how effective EMPs will be. The bombs that were setoff that would create emps happened before micro computers were in place. In a testing video that I saw, a car placed under an EMP generator was effectively killed in a microsecond.
The way to protect against it would be to purchase spare computers. Anything with a circuit board or a chip is suspect. The older the car is the better, modern cars have multiple computers that interact with each other. Cars and trucks with points should be ok, but I'd stock a spare condenser in case that gets fried. Generators and starters would be other items to have spares.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:45 PM
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any truth to aluminum foil around components for protection?
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparks69 View Post
any truth to aluminum foil around components for protection?
In theory, if the foil is grounded, it should work. However, most automotive computers are in aluminum cases for the cooling aspect, so they are already shielded. The wires going in, and out of them however are not. To be effective, you need to wrap all of your wire harness in foil, and make sure you have a solid connection from the foil to the cars chassis from both ends.

Rather than tin foil, I would choose some sort of copper foil, or copper meshing because you can solder wires to it. Those can then be run to the chassis to ground them.
Old 01-11-2012, 10:07 PM
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Having a car in any situation should be avoided. I say this because it will cause problems such as sheeps wanting your car, truck etc. these sheeps will do whatever it takes to get what they want. I plan on leaving on foot to avoid these problems. The less problems you have in a SHTF the better off you will be. Unless you live on the outside of your city limits and get to where you need to be fast I would avoid vehicles. just giving you my opinion.
Old 01-11-2012, 10:14 PM
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Bicycle with a baby cart would work to haul things. If I could find a cammo bike I would be set! Also, your auto might work, but there may be thousands of others that don't clogging up the roads.
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:17 PM
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In Kansas there is pretty much a gravel road every mile. It is like the entire western half of the state is a grid of mile squares. Highways would be congested but I could get home via gravel road IF my pickup would run
2010 Toyota Tacoma
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william12 View Post
Having a car in any situation should be avoided. I say this because it will cause problems such as sheeps wanting your car, truck etc. these sheeps will do whatever it takes to get what they want. I plan on leaving on foot to avoid these problems. The less problems you have in a SHTF the better off you will be. Unless you live on the outside of your city limits and get to where you need to be fast I would avoid vehicles. just giving you my opinion.
I hope I'm in the truck that will be on the road in an hour or so.

If so, I would drive over these sheeps you speak of.

If I'm in the weaker one, oh well. Hope I can make the hike.
Old 01-11-2012, 10:34 PM
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the govt has an emp commission heres there most recent report that evaluates every part of our infrastructure
http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2...ission-7MB.pdf


cars with complex electronics would be effected and it would kill your battery

but older cars that are not heavily dependent on electronics would run just fine
Old 01-11-2012, 10:38 PM
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That is reassuring. However, I would not expect the government to declassify the following memo:

"ALCON - In the Event of an EMP we are all F#$@@$ and nothing will work. Spread the word"
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:41 PM
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The only thing I would trust to work in an emp is a breaker points (actually a magneto)carborated engine; think B-29 Enola Gay field tested. A simple diesel with gravity feed to a mechanical injector should be good. Chip controlled stuff fails all the time emp or not.
Old 01-11-2012, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
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That is reassuring. However, I would not expect the government to declassify the following memo:

"ALCON - In the Event of an EMP we are all F#$@@$ and nothing will work. Spread the word"
Quote:
The electromagnetic pulse generated by a high altitude nuclear explosion is one of a small number of threats that can hold our society at risk of catastrophic consequences. The increasingly pervasive use of electronics of all forms represents the greatest source of vulnerability to attack by EMP. Electronics are used to control, communicate, com- pute, store, manage, and implement nearly every aspect of United States (U.S.) civilian systems. When a nuclear explosion occurs at high altitude, the EMP signal it produces will cover the wide geographic region within the line of sight of the detonation.1 This broad band, high amplitude EMP, when coupled into sensitive electronics, has the capa- bility to produce widespread and long lasting disruption and damage to the critical infrastructures that underpin the fabric of U.S. society.
Because of the ubiquitous dependence of U.S. society on the electrical power system, its vulnerability to an EMP attack, coupled with the EMP’s particular damage mecha- nisms, creates the possibility of long-term, catastrophic consequences. The implicit invi- tation to take advantage of this vulnerability, when coupled with increasing proliferation of nuclear weapons and their delivery systems, is a serious concern. A single EMP attack may seriously degrade or shut down a large part of the electric power grid in the geo- graphic area of EMP exposure effectively instantaneously. There is also a possibility of functional collapse of grids beyond the exposed area, as electrical effects propagate from one region to another.
its bad and the gov says so but if you read the report its not as bad as you would expect from reading wrales books its a good read if you are interested
Old 01-11-2012, 10:46 PM
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Automobiles were subjected to EMP environments under both engine turned off and
engine turned on conditions. No effects were subsequently observed in those automobiles
that were not turned on during EMP exposure. The most serious effect observed on running
automobiles was that the motors in three cars stopped at field strengths of approximately
30 kV/m or above. In an actual EMP exposure, these vehicles would glide to a
stop and require the driver to restart them. Electronics in the dashboard of one automobile
were damaged and required repair. Other effects were relatively minor. Twenty-five
automobiles exhibited malfunctions that could be considered only a nuisance (e.g.,
blinking dashboard lights) and did not require driver intervention to correct. Eight of the
37 cars tested did not exhibit any anomalous response.
Based on these test results, we expect few automobile effects at EMP field levels below
25 kV/m. Approximately 10 percent or more of the automobiles exposed to higher field
levels may experience serious EMP effects, including engine stall, that require driver
intervention to correct.

This was taken from the link provided by FarmerJohn........thanks John
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparks69 View Post
Automobiles were subjected to EMP environments under both engine turned off and
engine turned on conditions. No effects were subsequently observed in those automobiles
that were not turned on during EMP exposure. The most serious effect observed on running
automobiles was that the motors in three cars stopped at field strengths of approximately
30 kV/m or above. In an actual EMP exposure, these vehicles would glide to a
stop and require the driver to restart them. Electronics in the dashboard of one automobile
were damaged and required repair. Other effects were relatively minor. Twenty-five
automobiles exhibited malfunctions that could be considered only a nuisance (e.g.,
blinking dashboard lights) and did not require driver intervention to correct. Eight of the
37 cars tested did not exhibit any anomalous response.
Based on these test results, we expect few automobile effects at EMP field levels below
25 kV/m. Approximately 10 percent or more of the automobiles exposed to higher field
levels may experience serious EMP effects, including engine stall, that require driver
intervention to correct.

This was taken from the link provided by FarmerJohn........thanks John
your welcome

the issue would be greatest with complex circuits like your iPod probably would not fare so well simple electronics would not be so bad off

where problems occur are with complex electronic and comms equipment lets say an emp goes off and all of a sudden the airport tower cannot communicate with planes trying to land at a major airport

or the complex med equipment at hospitals getting some circuitry fried id hate to be on the operating table when the breathing machine or the dr doing wireless open heart surgery goes offline
Old 01-11-2012, 11:58 PM
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FarmerJohn & Sparks: what would the theoretical strength of an EMP be?

Reason I ask was that I vaguely remember that a criticism of this test was that the electrical field strength was calculated to be significantly higher than what was tested.
Old 01-12-2012, 12:05 AM
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It sounds like circuit boards are the problem.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:43 AM
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Des an EMP generator emit the exact same EMP when a nuclear weapon is detonated in the upper atmosphere? Just asking because I think I recall reading that Hawaii was affected by Americas first test in the 50's or 60's and their technology was nowhere near as advanced as today?
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