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Old 01-07-2012, 01:16 PM
packhorse packhorse is offline
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Default Are you a hoarder? Depends on what kind!



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Last week while I was in the check out line at the grocery store I overheard an interesting conversation from the check out line beside me. They were discussing the use of coupons. The conclusion of the conversation made by the clerk was that more than casual use of such was hoarding and it should be illegal to use coupons to buy in large quantities.

Then this week in another thread I started it was viewed that my proposal could be hoarding.

This got me to thinking; what is hoarding?

1) Webster 1828: hoarding laying up in store. Instinctively collecting and laying up provisions for winter; as, the squirrel is a hoarding animal. (Under hoard Webster does note that in general it is done secretly.

First use: before 12th century; Origin: Middle English hord, from Old English; akin to Gothic huzd treasure, Old English hȳdan to hide (www.merriam-webster.com)

to collect large amounts of something and keep it in a safe, often secret, place (dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/hoarding)

According to the above hoarding is not wrong. A wise farmer hoards hay and straw every fall for the winter. I put up supplies for possible hard times, even buying some at the last minute.

2) A web-site 3-part definition of clinical hoarding:
*The acquisition of, and failure to discard, a large number of possessions that appear to be useless or of limited value (Frost and Gross, 1993).
*Living spaces are cluttered enough that they can't be used for the activities for which they were designed (Frost and Hartl, 1996).
*Significant distress or impairment in functioning caused by the hoarding.
Hoarding has three components:
*Acquiring possessions compulsively - compulsive buying, or collecting free things.
*Saving all these possessions and never discarding.
*Not organizing and maintaining all the saved possessions.

This is not good.

3) Growing up I had a third understanding according to how it was sometimes used by my mom related to her experience in war torn Europe.

Hoarding was the act of buying up or cornering the market on a particular item, such as matches or nylons, etc. and keeping it stored to create a lack of supply in the market artificially driving up the price. Then the hoarder released the goods at the inflated price to make a profit which in fact was price gouging.

To me this is corrupt and evil.

My conclusion is that as one concerned about possible coming disasters it would be wise to store up (hoard) for the future. If I could add to that supply (hoard) at the last minute as I am watching what I have no desire to enter into unfold and realized my preparation (hoard) needs to be adjusted, I will do that. I would take my cash which I have hoarded (stored) in the bank and will exchange it for tangibles that I will store (hoard) to give my family and myself the opportunity to survive a disaster.

I give thousands of dollars away to needy family members, friends and total strangers every year. Yes I hoard (prepare for an unknown future) and I give freely that others may have the opportunity to hoard (to gain a little extra so they will not be needy).

If my actions are as described in #2 above then I need help.

If my intentions are to profit through others misery as described in #3 above then I am sicker than in #2.

This is just a little rant from an old curmudgeon.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:22 PM
Bitterroot Saint Bitterroot Saint is offline
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I had a great aunt who was a text book hoarder. Nice woman, just the way she was.

I am an anti-hoarder (also called a minimalist), might be from experiencing what she went through.

But excessive coupon use illegal and hoarding? Ya, uuhmm, let me thorw the BS flag on that one
Old 01-07-2012, 01:26 PM
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The TV show Hoarders gave a bad connotation to the word.

By definition, being a hoarder is just what all of us are arent we?
Old 01-07-2012, 01:31 PM
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I don't consider myself a hoarder. I watch that show and I do not have 150 boxes of electrolsol in a box in my closet nor do I have a stack of dirty diapers in my bathroom or garbage on my floor. What I do have is a well stocked panty filled with every day items that we use on a regular basis now what I call that is.........brilliant.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:44 PM
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Hoarding is buying up everything when there is little of it available. When theres pleanty of it your not hoarding it your stocking up. Up until 50 years ago all humans that survived well did it. Not we dont and they think thats bad? Its worked for our entire history so far, at least the humans that survived. As far as being a mess. Our stuff is so organised I can tell you where and what we have faster then the workers at walmart can with there products.

Also whos to say you are not stocking up supplies incase something goes wrong and its your cottage industry. Food has always and always will be in demand.
Old 01-07-2012, 01:56 PM
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To the anti hoarder I say this , cancel your insurance and only put the fuel in your car needed for the emediate trip and no more, get rid of the spare tire.
Get rid of your refrigerator, and run your water heater manually so that it is not running when you are not needing hot water.
Do not plan for the future ,and accept all losses as deserved punishment for not having enough forsight into the future.
My dad having grown up during the great depression became a hoarder, and even neighbors would give him their cast offs knowing that he always had a use for the odd ball things and did a lot of repairing in the neighborhood .
I have the same gene , so I know the mentality very well. there is little I can't fix or build . It's a hobby.
The trouble with accumulation is storage and organization, but if things are storred and organized the rest of the world looks at it as a collection more than accumulation.
Dad was not good at that and I an finally getting a handle on it having inherited all of his stuff and getting rid of the offending accumulation out side the buildings.
It's a tough job and a cruel one to hand down to your children. keeping that in mind I work to better my situation so my son isn't saddled like I was.
Old 01-07-2012, 01:59 PM
Bitterroot Saint Bitterroot Saint is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
To the anti hoarder I say this , cancel your insurance and only put the fuel in your car needed for the emediate trip and no more, get rid of the spare tire.
Get rid of your refrigerator, and run your water heater manually so that it is not running when you are not needing hot water.
Do not plan for the future ,and accept all losses as deserved punishment for not having enough forsight into the future.
My dad having grown up during the great depression became a hoarder, and even neighbors would give him their cast offs knowing that he always had a use for the odd ball things and did a lot of repairing in the neighborhood .
I have the same gene , so I know the mentality very well. there is little I can't fix or build . It's a hobby.
The trouble with accumulation is storage and organization, but if things are storred and organized the rest of the world looks at it as a collection more than accumulation.
Dad was not good at that and I an finally getting a handle on it having inherited all of his stuff and getting rid of the offending accumulation out side the buildings.
It's a tough job and a cruel one to hand down to your children. keeping that in mind I work to better my situation so my son isn't saddled like I was.
uuhhmm how bout. WTF?

I did not say I do not have what I need to live....I do not surround myself with others call valued possessions and I call crap.

Sorry to have hit a nerve with you, a few shots of whiskey will make it go away

Oh ya, and look up the definition of minimalist before coming here and looking like an asshat
Old 01-07-2012, 02:10 PM
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Bitterroot Saint,

You caught my play on the word. I appreciate the minimalist as well as the prepper. They are honing skills to prepare for the future according to their philosophy. It is not my preference but is a tool I consider if needed.
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packhorse View Post
Bitterroot Saint,

You caught my play on the word. I appreciate the minimalist as well as the prepper. They are honing skills to prepare for the future according to their philosophy. It is not my preference but is a tool I consider if needed.
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I guess I could further explain what it really means and what it means to me,, but am hesitant to share alot on a internet forum.

For me, the biggest thing is, I do not see the need to spend money on things that are not utilitarian nor things that other people do to say they have them.

Somehow I hit a nerve with the other poster
Old 01-07-2012, 02:24 PM
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The global economy could withstand widespread disruption from a natural disaster or attack by militants for only a week as governments and businesses are not sufficiently prepared to deal with unexpected events, a report by a respected think-tank said. Full article.
Old 01-07-2012, 03:03 PM
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I hoard cartridges for my guns, got full ammo cans for each one. Other than that, I too am a minimalist and travel light.
Own less.....Live more..... “Owning less is far more beneficial than organizing more.”
Old 01-07-2012, 05:27 PM
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The real issue here is how the law will define hoarding if there's ever rationing again. During WWII, if you had a stockpile, you were a hoarder. It didn't matter if you bought it before the war or during. That's what worries me the most.

The logical interpretation should be those stockpiling during the crisis are hoarders, but those who bought before it aren't. But how does one tell which is which? And when was the last time the government, fed or local, based a judgement on logic?
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Old 01-07-2012, 09:38 PM
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I hoard the things I will need and go economic minimalist on the yuppie stuff. Ammo I buy it as a budget item the price will always go up. same for food that doesn't spoil quick. If the Trucks stop moving I'll be OK for awhile. I try for a balance as I will be retiring soon and don't want to pay the freight on limited use things. Also moving regularly is a great incentive to prioritize, what you really need and divest the old and wornout.
Old 01-07-2012, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitterroot Saint View Post
Thanks

I guess I could further explain what it really means and what it means to me,, but am hesitant to share alot on a internet forum.

For me, the biggest thing is, I do not see the need to spend money on things that are not utilitarian nor things that other people do to say they have them.

Somehow I hit a nerve with the other poster
I'm a minimalist as well. I like to keep my home clutter free and everything that's been outgrown by my two boys and whatever we don't use anymore I donate or give to friends with younger children. I stock up on things I know I'll use but pass on stuff that will only collect dust. I also buy higher quality items that are durable, useful, and will last long than have several cheap items that break for example a reliable car, durable furniture, good shoes, a nice jacket and coat, good quality towels, etc. I'd rather have two great leather bags than have several cheap ones that rip at the seams. I strive for minimalist living as much as I can.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:36 PM
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I love to be called a ammo and firearm hoarder.
Old 01-07-2012, 10:42 PM
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Technically just by collecting say sports memorabilia is a form of hoarding. But w=its when it becomes a serious problem is it considered a problem.
Old 01-07-2012, 10:44 PM
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A banker was sitting at his desk when a young woman sat down and dumped a huge pile of cash on his desk, right out of a very large sack.

The banker asked: "Did you hoard all of this yourself?"

The young woman answered: "No, my sister hoard half of it."

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Old 01-07-2012, 10:54 PM
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I agree that the word 'hoarder' has a very negative connotation nowadays.

I think of myself as a prudent purchaser and frugal housekeeper. I plan ahead so that I can look after myself and my family.
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:01 PM
Bitterroot Saint Bitterroot Saint is offline
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Being a "clinical" hoarder means that whatever it is you hoard interfers heavily in your daily life - thats what a shrink told me anyway - which I agree with.

She compared it to a gambling addict: If someone gambles but is able to pay their bills, have a job, have other activities in life it is a hobby or past time. When the gambler only think about gambling to the point where it costs them jobs, family, a residence, friendships, etc then it is a gambling addiction.

Actually that comparrison made quite a lot of sense in explaining what "hoarding" really is.
Old 01-07-2012, 11:32 PM
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At present the mental health field doesn't have a working criteria for hording disorder (though it quite obviously exists)

Right now about 3% of the population are horders and they range in severity. The disorder (though you can't yet call it that legally) is related to OCD and functional MRI studies show similar brain activity and histology... It is very similar to the findings that are associated with the behaviors common in prepping too

Without boring you to tears, all three have a disproportional lack of grey matter that helps control inhibitions.

Are preppers horders? Some are, some aren't. But I'll bet my lambskin that there are more horders in the prepping community than in the population at large.


It is expected that a working criteria for hording will be added to the DSM V when it is published. And it will look something like this:

Hoarding Disorder

The work group is recommending that this be included in DSM-5 but is still examining the evidence as to whether inclusion is merited in the main manual or in an Appendix for Further Research.

A. Persistent difficulty discarding or parting with possessions, regardless of the value others may attribute to these possessions. *

B. This difficulty is due to strong urges to save items and/or distress associated with discarding

C. The symptoms result in the accumulation of a large number of possessions that fill up and clutter active living areas of the home or workplace to the extent that their intended use is no longer possible. If all living areas are uncluttered, it is only because of the interventions of third parties (e.g., family members, cleaners, authorities).

D. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning (including maintaining a safe environment for self and others).

E. The hoarding symptoms are not due to a general medical condition (e.g., brain injury, cerebrovascular disease).

F. The hoarding symptoms are not restricted to the symptoms of another mental disorder (e.g., hoarding due to obsessions in Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, decreased energy in Major Depressive Disorder, delusions in Schizophrenia or another Psychotic Disorder, cognitive deficits in Dementia, restricted interests in Autism Spectrum Disorder, food storing in Prader-Willi Syndrome).

Specify if:

With Excessive Acquisition: If symptoms are accompanied by excessive collecting or buying or stealing of items that are not needed or for which there is no available space.
__________________________________________________ ___

Specify whether hoarding beliefs and behaviors are currently characterized by:

Good or fair insight: Recognizes that hoarding-related beliefs and behaviors (pertaining to difficulty discarding items, clutter, or excessive acquisition) are problematic.

Poor insight: Mostly convinced that hoarding-related beliefs and behaviors (pertaining to difficulty discarding items, clutter, or excessive acquisition) are not problematic despite evidence to the contrary.

Absent insight: Completely convinced that hoarding-related beliefs and behaviors (pertaining to difficulty discarding items, clutter, or excessive acquisition) are not problematic despite evidence to the contrary.
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