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Old 12-17-2011, 08:42 PM
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Default Lidocaine injectable substitute



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I'm trying to beef up my first aid supplies and I'd like to have injectable lidocaine for nerve blocks during field procedures.

Can't get it without a prescription.

What about Pen G. procaine? Would the procaine in the solution be sufficient to block nerves or for subcutaneous application?
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:56 PM
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Procaine Pcn G..would hurt like heck and would not provide local anes..just ask any ER nurse who would give 2.4 million U injection in each buttock for VD...not pleasant.
Old 12-17-2011, 09:26 PM
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Aren't those babies 16 gauge needles? (if memory serves correctly)
Old 12-17-2011, 09:38 PM
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man that's a tough one. I'm drawing a blank. Without the script, I don't know what you can use. ?
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:03 PM
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This sounds crazy, but in an absolute emergency -
What about injecting neosporin gel, the kind with lidocaine?
Not sterile but does contain an antibiotic.
Old 12-17-2011, 10:04 PM
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How about "injecting" some whiskey.
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:14 PM
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only thought is liquid tooth pain killer maybe. being an oral med, and over the counter, it may have lidocaine or benzocaine.?
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:16 PM
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Seriously, ask Straight Razor. He might know of some natural herb you can use to help numb pain.
Old 12-17-2011, 10:50 PM
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I haven't found a suitable replacement for Lidocaine yet, but in personal experience when you set up for a suture, sometimes it is faster to just throw in a couple of stitches without anesthetics.

Lidocaine burns like hell anyways, so it's just as painful to give the injections to do a block as it is to sew quick.

That or if the lac is in a location that you can staple skip the sutures altogether.

I've had good luck with cyano acryclics as well.
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:14 PM
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DS you are referring to this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyl_cyanoacrylate
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Last edited by txflyboy; 12-17-2011 at 11:20 PM.. Reason: medical grade, like BB's about to say...
Old 12-17-2011, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc_Shane View Post
I haven't found a suitable replacement for Lidocaine yet, but in personal experience when you set up for a suture, sometimes it is faster to just throw in a couple of stitches without anesthetics.

Lidocaine burns like hell anyways, so it's just as painful to give the injections to do a block as it is to sew quick.

That or if the lac is in a location that you can staple skip the sutures altogether.

I've had good luck with cyano acryclics as well.
Medical grade, or Dollar Tree grade?
Old 12-17-2011, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
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Medical grade, or Dollar Tree grade?

in a pinch both will work......... but I'd go with the medical grade stuff if you can get it cheap enough, vet suppliers should have it.

typically I think we are all talking about suturing fairly small lacs, anything more than that and you are looking at the high chance of infections.
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:52 PM
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When I was raising show goats, my vets kept me well supplied with Lidocane so that I could "humanely and painlessly" dehorn the wethers. Half a cc per horn bud on 3 day old kids. Did around 200 wethers each spring, and my country vet wasn't about to have me bring each and every one up to the clinic, so he'd just hand over a couple of bottles.

Everyone needs a country vet...
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:23 AM
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Try looking on ebay in tattoo supplies for anesthetic. They usually have a topical cream with lidocane. Not perfect, but better than nothing.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:08 AM
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Who here has the medical training and experience necessary to do a nerve block?? Are you serious....I have seen talented anesthesiologists have difficulty with this procedure! Injecting whiskey or some type of topical cream is just plain nuts, not only will it not work, it will do more harm than good. Injecting the wrong type of anesthesia and/or in the wrong place could cause paralysis, loss of limb and death.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojo View Post
Who here has the medical training and experience necessary to do a nerve block?? Are you serious....I have seen talented anesthesiologists have difficulty with this procedure! Injecting whiskey or some type of topical cream is just plain nuts, not only will it not work, it will do more harm than good. Injecting the wrong type of anesthesia and/or in the wrong place could cause paralysis, loss of limb and death.
It took 15 posts, but I knew it was coming.

Do I really need to explain that someday you may find yourself having to do an amputation or major debridement of putrid necrotic flesh on your screaming thrashing ___ (insert wife, son, group member, etc.) and that professional help won't be available? And that you'll find your limited skills better than nothing in the face of certain death?

OR that none of us are doing this casually, on weekends, for fun when we're done building ships in bottles or model train layouts?

C'mon now.
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Old 12-19-2011, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojo View Post
Who here has the medical training and experience necessary to do a nerve block?? Are you serious....I have seen talented anesthesiologists have difficulty with this procedure! Injecting whiskey or some type of topical cream is just plain nuts, not only will it not work, it will do more harm than good. Injecting the wrong type of anesthesia and/or in the wrong place could cause paralysis, loss of limb and death.

I think he was joking about injecting whiskey.
Old 12-19-2011, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuellerBueller View Post
It took 15 posts, but I knew it was coming.

Do I really need to explain that someday you may find yourself having to do an amputation or major debridement of putrid necrotic flesh on your screaming thrashing ___ (insert wife, son, group member, etc.) and that professional help won't be available? And that you'll find your limited skills better than nothing in the face of certain death?

OR that none of us are doing this casually, on weekends, for fun when we're done building ships in bottles or model train layouts?

C'mon now.
have you ever actually dealt with a serious injury? with the protective posturing, screaming and shock?

really think your kid will let you sew up his arm that's a mangled mess...or partial amputation at a joint?

if you think you will be able to amputate, sew up flesh, ect. even in a post SHTF situation, you're in for a surprise.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:30 PM
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I am retired OR nurse. I think I have a better idea than some, of the kind of medical situations we would be dealing with post SHTF. The one major mistake, most of the untrained make, is believing that the medical help that will be available will be up to modern expectations and that with no hands on experience, they will be able to follow a set of written instructions, intended for application in a modern hospital, with a positive outcome. Add to that, I have never seen a nerve block accomplished without the aid of conscious sedation, without which it would be an extremely painful procedure and that they take aprox. 20 minutes to take full effect.
BullerBuller State tourniquet placement and anatomical landmarks for the insertion of an ulnar nerve block, type and dosage of anesthetic and type of needle, calculated for a 12 year old child, the amount of time the tourniquet should be in place and the proper methods for removal. If you even get close, I will back down.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Old 12-19-2011, 04:40 PM
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It's been a while back but I saw a website that sold dry lidocaine by the oz. You reconstituted it with sterile water for injection.
I'll look around for it and see if it is still available.
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