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Old 07-24-2008, 08:09 PM
TMHonfire TMHonfire is offline
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Question How do you get a home based ffl?



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I Started by going to the BATF form order website: http://www.atf.treas.gov/dcof/index.htm

I looked at
form F 7 (5310.12) - the application for FFL,
form F 5300.42 - certification of secure storage
Form FBI FD-258FA - fingerprint card

is this right or cant i just order

ATF F 7(5310.12) - Federal Firearms License Application Packet (includes instructions, fingerprint cards, and other material
Old 07-24-2008, 08:16 PM
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Cant.
The ATF no longer permits home based FFL. They do allow for C&R which you can feel free to google bro.
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:35 PM
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Cant.
The ATF no longer permits home based FFL. They do allow for C&R which you can feel free to google bro.
Since when? Please point to the change in the law that backs that up.

I had an FFL and ran it out of my house from 2003 to 2007. The ATF doesn't like "kitchen table dealers" but they have to issue the license if you pass the required background checks, etc.

The reason they reject most kitchen table dealers has nothing to do with ATF regulations per se. Usually they reject you because local ordinances limit your ability to run a business out of your home, and they can use that to reject you. I happen to live in a city with liberal laws on running a home based business.

Before you go to the trouble of applying for an FFL, check your local ordinances.
Old 07-24-2008, 09:19 PM
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i live in texas and there are people i do know sell out of the homes with there ffl
Old 07-24-2008, 10:05 PM
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Since when? Please point to the change in the law that backs that up.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a1

(A1) Does the law regulate who can be in the business?

"An example of these standards is that the applicant must have a business premises."
[18 U.S.C. 923(d), 27 CFR 478.47]

This is why the ATF dismissed thousands of FFLs just a couple of years ago, but hey give it a try, the worst they can say is no.
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:20 PM
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DocYoung is right. Be it lawful or otherwise, ATF is denying licenses if you do not have a storefront in many cases. I know of two denials personally in which an examiner contacted applicants, one for gun sales and one for gunsmithing purposes. They were both denied due to not having a seperate storefront location from their residence.
There are a number of residence based FFL's in my area, but all have had the license for a number of years.
I would very much like to hear if you are successful in acquiring a new license.
Old 07-24-2008, 10:22 PM
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My stepson recently got a C&R license. I realize you can't operate a business with a C&R but I was surprised at how easy it was to get.
Old 07-24-2008, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DocYoung View Post
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a1

(A1) Does the law regulate who can be in the business?

"An example of these standards is that the applicant must have a business premises."
[18 U.S.C. 923(d), 27 CFR 478.47]

This is why the ATF dismissed thousands of FFLs just a couple of years ago, but hey give it a try, the worst they can say is no.
Your home can qualify as a "business premises" as long as your zoning laws allow it. Most kitchen table FFL's didn't want to allow the ATF into their homes. If your business premises is your home, they can pretty much search your home anytime they want. This bothers most people.

TMHonFire: Yes you can get an FFL and work out of your home if local ordinances allow. I heard the same naysayers before I got mine.
Old 07-24-2008, 10:29 PM
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good luck with that.

Like I said the worst they can say is no.
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:56 PM
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is all the paper a lot or small
Old 07-24-2008, 11:32 PM
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Ok, gonna make a couple of assumptions here. You posted earlier about what it takes to get a Transferable Class 3 weapon. Legitimate question, and from what I read, you received good advice. Now, here you come asking about a "kitchen table FFL". I for one can easily see where this is headed. Like MANY others, some people decide to get an FFL and then upgrade to deal in NFA weapons. They do this for 2 reasons:

1. Avoid paying transfer taxes on NFA weapons
2. To be able to possess post 86 Samples

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that a post 86 AK can be had for around $250.00 vs a registered, transferable AK for $15-30 Grand. However, I STRONGLY urge you to proceed with EXTREME caution. It is a FELONY to obtain an FFL to "enhance" your personal gun collection. Trust me on this, within the past year, the ATF has RIGOROUSLY investigated and prosecuted people for this very reason.

Ok, with all that said, good luck and let us know how it turns out.


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Old 07-25-2008, 08:35 PM
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Ok, gonna make a couple of assumptions here. You posted earlier about what it takes to get a Transferable Class 3 weapon. Legitimate question, and from what I read, you received good advice. Now, here you come asking about a "kitchen table FFL". I for one can easily see where this is headed. Like MANY others, some people decide to get an FFL and then upgrade to deal in NFA weapons. They do this for 2 reasons:

1. Avoid paying transfer taxes on NFA weapons
2. To be able to possess post 86 Samples

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that a post 86 AK can be had for around $250.00 vs a registered, transferable AK for $15-30 Grand. However, I STRONGLY urge you to proceed with EXTREME caution. It is a FELONY to obtain an FFL to "enhance" your personal gun collection. Trust me on this, within the past year, the ATF has RIGOROUSLY investigated and prosecuted people for this very reason.

Ok, with all that said, good luck and let us know how it turns out.


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im not wanting to get an ffl to enhance my personal gun collection just want to know if this can happen, i want to know if making a business out of your home cant happen
Old 07-25-2008, 08:43 PM
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I honestly do not know. I know for sure the ATF is "making it hard" for people to obtain a home based FFL. I will try to help you here. Buy or build a 10' x 10' shed, and make that your "shop". Have a separate power meter installed for it, etc. This makes it a "separate" structure from the home. All legal. Of course, check all local laws, and building codes first. Hope this helps you, and good luck.


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Old 07-25-2008, 08:52 PM
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i applied for the c&r and was approved till they found out i lived in nj, atf said the njsp was gonna have to interview me and they would deny it because it was out of my home....:headshake
Old 07-25-2008, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Killgore View Post
I honestly do not know. I know for sure the ATF is "making it hard" for people to obtain a home based FFL. I will try to help you here. Buy or build a 10' x 10' shed, and make that your "shop". Have a separate power meter installed for it, etc. This makes it a "separate" structure from the home. All legal. Of course, check all local laws, and building codes first. Hope this helps you, and good luck.


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"I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy!"
so i would be better then having the ATF come to your shop then your house???
Old 07-25-2008, 09:05 PM
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so i would be better then having the ATF come to your shop then your house???
ABSOLUTELY!

Ok, lets talk about this a second. If you seriously want to become a gun dealer/gunsmith, you must have an FFL. In order to ENSURE the best chance at getting the FFL, IMO having a free-standing shop would be better accepted by the ATF investigator who will come do the interview. Another REALLY good reason to have a free standing shop is IF you get your FFL for a home based business, then the ATF can inspect your ENTIRE home when they come for an inspection. There won't be a dammed thing you can do about it. Feel free to ask around. By all means ask local FFL dealers, and call the ATF. Ask questions NOW, not after the fact.


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Old 07-25-2008, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Killgore View Post
Another REALLY good reason to have a free standing shop is IF you get your FFL for a home based business, then the ATF can inspect your ENTIRE home when they come for an inspection. There won't be a dammed thing you can do about it. Feel free to ask around. By all means ask local FFL dealers, and call the ATF.
I think this is the number one reason people don't do it out of there homes, if they could otherwise. In 4 years they never visited me once after the interview.

Keep this in mind if you pursue it. The FFL is "shall issue". The interview is partially a formality. If you've dotted your I's, crossed the T's, local ordinances permit it, and you don't' make any stupid remarks during the interview, they HAVE to issue the FFL. The black woman who did my interview told me if it was up to her, she wouldn't give it to me as it was done out of my house. I smiled and told her it wasn't up to her. That's why we have laws, and we all have to follow them, even people who don't think they should have to, like ATF agents.
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Old 07-26-2008, 02:21 AM
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Well this is nice to know!
I have been told by many that they dont give them to people under 25 years old, is this a load of crap or right and how hard is it to get a distro to get your guns from????
Old 07-26-2008, 03:25 PM
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I would call the ATF and ask what the age requirement is. I do not know, but it would seem to be at least 21. As far as a distributor, you will need 2 things:

1. Money
2. Good Credit

Personally I do not see going into the gun business as a good thing right now. In the late 80's early 90's there was a lot of cash to made from guns. That just simply isn't true anymore. Why? Well, there a number of reasons.

*Increasingly Complicated Laws and Regulations
*Steadily Decreasing Profit Margins
*Increased Operating Costs
*Decreasing Cheap Imported Firearms
*High Amount of Existing Competition

Finding a market niche is really the only thing you can do. Also, bear in mind, you must INTEND to make a profit by getting the FFL; otherwise the Nazis could claim you obtained it for other reasons. Good luck.


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Old 07-27-2008, 05:32 AM
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how do all the other ffl gun dealers making there $$$ if its that hard
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