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Old 11-12-2011, 01:10 PM
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ChapNelson ChapNelson is offline
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I have 2 Rossi 92s in 357, tuned up. Light, quick handling, easy to point, easy to load/cast bullets for, and with a good load and shot placement, 150 yds on thin skinned game. I am hoping to add 2 Marlin 1894 .44 magnums to the armory, with skinner tactical sights. There are some great loads in .44, a good hunter should be well equipped for elk/moose/bear to 200yds. Inside combat ranges I'd rather not be hit in the SAAPI once by a .44 myself, never mind 11 times. I'd start with the 1894 .44 if I could only have one.

FWIW, I no longer own semi-auto or bolt rifles apart from rimfire, and theyre being phased out.
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Old 11-12-2011, 01:46 PM
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The lever-action carbines are nice handy companion guns. None are true rifles. A .357mag is a shortrange proposition, so is a .44mag setup Elmer Keith's 600yd shot on a Mule deer aside...

A rifle has range and power, along with, hopefully, accuracy. Own a .357mag? Do you handload? If so, forget about swapping ammo, and think about swapping bullets... A .358win or .35 Whelen can be loaded with .357 pistol bullets. If you cast your own bullets, you are even that much better served.

Want a magnum? Try the .358 ST Alaskan or the Norma Magnum. Load cast bullets in those and you really have a range of power to select from. Cast bullets can be loaded to max velocities or very mild.

The Browning BLR is available in .358win. If you want a lever gun with real power, that would be a neat choice. Remington offers the model 700 and pump/auto rifles in .35 Whelen. Can load the Whelen with 225gr Sierra boat tail softpoints and have a real longrange capable rifle. Easy to neck up .30-06 brass to Whelen. Great Power when you need it, or shoot wadcutters at 1000fps for small game or varmints.

The .444 Marlin is similar option if you prefer .44 handgun.

Might also think about the .32 H&R magnum if you already own a .308 or .30-30. Can share bullets as well between those.

When you need a rifle, a carbine just won't do. Study the ballistics and see the effective range of any pistol round. Bullet drop is pretty remarkable at 200yds if sighted in at 50 or 100. IE a .357mag 125 at 1400fps muzzle, when sighted at 50yds, drops 39" at 200yds.

If you expect your Marlin 1894 to perform well out past 100yds, you are really going to need to be a helluva a shot and have plenty time to make the shot. If you have a .35 whelen, assuming you can shoot halfway decently, the deer or larger animal is yours.


The Marlin carbines are fine guns, but rather specialty items. Great choice if you can't afford a semi-auto rifle for defense, or if you live in a ban state. Not a primary choice because they are nowhere near as capable as a bonafide rifle...
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:14 PM
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I found a buddy with a good deal on a .357 Marlin 1894c. I'm planning on carrying it for cruising, backpacking, and just walking on the ranch. I would like a good revolver to match it. I want something with a 4-5 inch barrel that would be worth dropping a few clams on, but that I won't care to rough up a little bit since I'll be carrying it a lot. Suggestions?
Old 11-14-2011, 08:36 PM
Patriot Refusnik Patriot Refusnik is offline
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I don't think I'd want to rely on a break action rifle as a "survival" rifle. Maybe i'm unclear on what you mean by "survival"...you mean a week lost in the woods? or a total breakdown of society?
For a short survival time in the woods, wouldn't a .22 be more useful than a .44 magnum?
For extended survival, are you expecting to defend your homestead with a break action gun? Surely not.

Are you saying that it would not be feasible to have more than one gun, so choose just one?
If I had to choose just one gun, I'd stick with a 308. I have a Saiga 308 that kills deer and elk very well. But if you prefer the reliability and accuracy of a bolt action, I personally and smitten with the new Ruger Scout Rifle
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Old 11-20-2011, 06:56 PM
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since you are not being reasonable about how poor a choice these calibers/lever actions are for shtf survival, why would anyone who knows anything bother to answer?
Old 11-20-2011, 10:26 PM
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Well if you have no practical experience shooting one and what it can do to deer sized game within 150 yards then I can understand you thinking it is a poor choice for SHTF. Anyone who wants to survive will avoid conflicts unlike some internet rambos who think that they need the latest whizbang rifle that is being used in some war zone to kill people. The lever action 357 or 44 magnum rifles are decent choices for SHTF and a good choice for long tern survival since your brass is not thrown all over hell and half of georgia and can be reloaded multiple times. Is it the best choice maybe not and it is not the right choice for every enviroment or type of terrain. But it is a good choice if your shooting is going to be 150 yards or less and you intend to avoid playing rambo. Some people here just dont seem to think that anything is any good for SHTF except the rifle they have or wish they had. So if you like the weapon and the cartridge and intend to practice enough to become proficient then by all means get one and enjoy it. If you do your part it will do its part. Regardless what some internet commandos think or spout.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:58 AM
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I think it can be a good setup as long as you have a plan that accepts the functionality of these weapons. I'd add the 9mm, .40 and .45 for consideration as well, particularly if I lived back East.

If your goal is to be tucked away in your BOL for the duration and your intent is to re-integrate into whatever community emerges then it should be fine. Not everyone has a plan that includes becoming a guerrilla resistance fighter or irregular militiaman.

Personally, I am not completely comfortable with a lever action for the long-haul, EOTW scenarios. Every mechanical connection is a potential point of failure and I have seen levers that were out-of-true and worry a bit about the maintenance issues since it's exposed. Still, some people won't be moving it around a lot and, in a few years that might include me.
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Old 11-27-2011, 10:10 AM
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For what a decent Marlin 1894 costs these days, used, you can be in the ballpark for a .358win chambered Browning BLR. The BLR has a detachable magazine which allows it to feed spitzer bullets plus any .357 pistol bullets or .358 roundnose or flatnose.

Bud's Gunshop shows a Ruger 77 Hawkeye in .358win under $600 and a Scout rifle looking Ruger stainless/laminated stock for under $650.

I own an 1894 Marlin in .44mag. It has been scoped in the past, now wears a Williams aperture rear sight. Hasn't been fired in 10yrs. I owned a .450 Marlin and sold it. Great power, but rainbow trajectory.

If you want power and loading versatility, forget tube magazine lever actions. I got no use for a Browning BLR or a Savage 99 either. Got no use for the .30-30 win 94 or .44 1894 either, but who knows?

What I do use are .338-06, .338win, and .340wby. Great trajectory, great bullet selection, great power. Bullets I use/handload go from the 230gr Failsafe to 300gr matchking, and a 290gr roundnose I cast from wheelweigh alloy to be very deep penetrating. If the .358 bore had as many good bullet choices I would go .358

Whatever floats your boat. Any .30-06 family cartridge in a bolt rifle can be loaded to deliver huge energy at many times the distance, compared with one of the carbine rounds. 75gr .223rem has more power at 500yds than a 125gr .357mag started at 1400fps has at 25yds.

Figure that Marlin 1894 is your ticket? For sure it beats a Winchester, but wow! does choosing one limit your capabilities in the effective range dept.

A .358 Whelen in a decent bolt gun (Rem 700 or Win 70) is a miracle worker compared to one of the .357 carbines. Can't swap ammo with the wheelgun on your hip, but you can swap bullets and that enables a lot of versatility for you if you got a Whelen. Any real .35cal rifle round is going to deliver more than a .357 carbine, even the anemic .35rem...

I don't recall Elmer Keith being infatuated with pistol round chambered carbines. It wasn't til the modern metallurgy S&W triple-locks in .44sp came along, with the advent of 2400 powder that the .44sp became more than another slow-coach blackpowder cowboy ctg.

Maybe if you live where you can't own a semi-auto rifle, a .44 or .357 lever carbine works as a defensive rifle for you? That is your call. They will sling a lot of lead fast, but not like you're gonna go far ambushing a small squad with a lever gun, is it? That deer that shows itself momentarily in a clearing 200yds away is gonna be well out of range for you 1894 carbine guys. Guess on that day, you'll go hungry if you don't get lucky... Relying on luck isn't much of a longterm solution though.

Good luck and happy shooting!
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:28 AM
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I appreciate all of your comments and opinions. I am in the process of developing a survival rifle for eventual sale and distribution. My main concerns are weight, reliability, and cost. It is designed for hunting, not self defense. SHTF situation or not, no one wants to carry 2 or 3 heavy weapons (usually weighing between 4 and 7 lbs each) plus a ton of ammo in a backpack on foot for more than a mile. My reason for asking this question is that most dedicated survival rifles are limited to one or two calibers. I want this rifle to have a larger range of possibilities in type of game and preference of caliber. I'll hopefully be able to post more about it as it progresses.
Old 12-02-2011, 05:19 AM
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Where I live some of us, who are instructors, have looked at saddle carbines as being good firearms for limited tactical use and limited or short ranged firearms. They don't make good guns when going up against a large number of hostile people but they are really good when going up against a small number of bad guys at very close ranges. Say under 100 yards and no more than 4 or 5 bad people.



I've carried a lever action in a police car on and off for over 20+ years without feeling like I needed anything else to defend me. I wouldn't want to try to use it for sniping missions but the majority of situations in which you'll find yourself, a lever action can generally do the job in a very effective manner.
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:05 AM
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Once again we have folks who want to "change the requirements" to meet hypothetical situations not pertinent to the poster. The fact is a shtf situation varies enormously depending on your mindset and local. In the ozark mountains 100 yards is a long shot. In many urban environments 100 years is a long shot.

As far as mindset is concerned many here seem to thing a collapse of society will require all of us to face off against dozens of ar armed badies. During the depression the only thing that happened was all the money was sucked out of the hands of common people. In the latter situation it would make sense to have just a couple of firearms that chamber the same round. At least ya' could hunt deer, turkey, possum, and coon and defend the homestead if necessary.
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:29 AM
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I am having a had time with "if a survival rifle was offered"
What is a survival rifle? Break open single shot?
Seems your asking about reinventing the wheel.
Old 12-02-2011, 08:34 AM
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I currently have a Marlin 1894SS in 44 Mag. plus 2 Rugers chambered in 44 as well (Alaskan Super Redhawk and 4” Redhawk) I feel very confident with this setup and not under gunned at all… The Marlin is very easy to shoot, accurate, easy to clean and durable.

I also have 3 Ruger 357 Mag’s, I am considering picking up a Marlin 1894 chambered for the 357 as well. I just don’t think you can go wrong with having a rifle/pistol combo and the 44 or 357 can do the job you ask (hunting, self-defense)
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captianpattson View Post
I appreciate all of your comments and opinions. I am in the process of developing a survival rifle for eventual sale and distribution. My main concerns are weight, reliability, and cost. It is designed for hunting, not self defense. SHTF situation or not, no one wants to carry 2 or 3 heavy weapons (usually weighing between 4 and 7 lbs each) plus a ton of ammo in a backpack on foot for more than a mile. My reason for asking this question is that most dedicated survival rifles are limited to one or two calibers. I want this rifle to have a larger range of possibilities in type of game and preference of caliber. I'll hopefully be able to post more about it as it progresses.
A 20 ga, .38SPL/.357 would make a nice combo, or a 20 ga. and a .22 magnum.
I would want it over/under with two triggers, and a telescoping stock.
Old 12-02-2011, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tern View Post
since you are not being reasonable about how poor a choice these calibers/lever actions are for shtf survival, why would anyone who knows anything bother to answer?
since you are not being reasonable about how good a choice these calibers/lever actions are for shtf survival, why would anyone who knows anything bother to listen to your answers?
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herd Sniper View Post
Where I live some of us, who are instructors, have looked at saddle carbines as being good firearms for limited tactical use and limited or short ranged firearms. They don't make good guns when going up against a large number of hostile people but they are really good when going up against a small number of bad guys at very close ranges. Say under 100 yards and no more than 4 or 5 bad people.

Sheriff's Tip: Lever Guns for Personal Protection - YouTube

Personal Defense - Marlin Model 336 - YouTube

I've carried a lever action in a police car on and off for over 20+ years without feeling like I needed anything else to defend me. I wouldn't want to try to use it for sniping missions but the majority of situations in which you'll find yourself, a lever action can generally do the job in a very effective manner.
Excellent videos. I've read about a number of those old turn of the century cowboys/law enforcement types using the winchester 94 in 30-30 with good results. Tom horn was one of those guys. It was considered something of a wonder in it's day.
Old 12-02-2011, 08:08 PM
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I have the HENERY BIG BOY LEVER ACTION RIFLES IN 357 & 44 mag with the brass receivers Exceptional quality in both function and looks. Extremely smooth action. Wouldnt hesitate to grab 1 headed out the door to defend myself or my home. But to EACH HIS OWN.
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Old 12-03-2011, 11:42 AM
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I will repeat my advice on rifles in handgun cartridges; why bother?

If you are going to carry the weight of a rifle, then get a rifle chambered for a rifle cartridge.

Beyond that I am not going to argue the pros and cons - that is my take on the issue.

But, if you are married to this idea and won't listen to logic, then I recommend either .44 Mag or possibly .454 Casull - the latter can be had in a lever action and you can shoot .45 LC in it then. If you get a revolver in .460 S&W you can shoot .460, .454 and .45 LC in it.

I would love to see some major manufacturer come out with a .458 based handgun round that would chamber and feed in a .45-70 lever action. I am not immune to the appeal of being able to shoot handgun cartridges in the rifle I am carrying, but except for .22 rimfire (where there is no difference) I am not willing to carry a rifle that only shoots handgun cartridges.
Old 12-05-2011, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
I am having a had time with "if a survival rifle was offered"
What is a survival rifle? Break open single shot?
Seems your asking about reinventing the wheel.
I wouldn't say reinventing the wheel but yes a single shot purpose built rifle. Other than the AR-7, nothing else is currently offered.
Old 12-05-2011, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Heretic View Post
I will repeat my advice on rifles in handgun cartridges; why bother?

If you are going to carry the weight of a rifle, then get a rifle chambered for a rifle cartridge.

Beyond that I am not going to argue the pros and cons - that is my take on the issue.

But, if you are married to this idea and won't listen to logic, then I recommend either .44 Mag or possibly .454 Casull - the latter can be had in a lever action and you can shoot .45 LC in it then. If you get a revolver in .460 S&W you can shoot .460, .454 and .45 LC in it.

I would love to see some major manufacturer come out with a .458 based handgun round that would chamber and feed in a .45-70 lever action. I am not immune to the appeal of being able to shoot handgun cartridges in the rifle I am carrying, but except for .22 rimfire (where there is no difference) I am not willing to carry a rifle that only shoots handgun cartridges.
The only reason I ask about these handgun cartridges is that they have fully rimmed casings and work well in a break action firearm. I never said anything about other cartridges, I was just curious about your thoughts on these two in particular. The problem with larger loads in a very lightweight weapon is excessive recoil. Again, I appreciate all of your comments
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