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Old 10-10-2011, 08:00 AM
Arch Stanton Arch Stanton is offline
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Default Is Siri the new Skynet?



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Just wondering if anybody else is more than a little nervous about the new cell phone application that can "learn" ?

Old 10-10-2011, 09:21 AM
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Haha, I thought this whole skynet thing was a joke. Lol, apparently not.

Look, this thing can't actually learn. It just records how frequently you click on different options and by figuring out what is most popular it will use that to alter its interface for the user.

Its not the hardest kind of AI, its simplistic in theory, the only difficulty is in recording potentially hundreds of different options. That's what takes the majority of the codeing team's time. But not impossible.

If you want to see real computers that can "learn" take a look at neural network computing. They basically are hundreds, even thousands of chips that are independent of each other, each acting like a neuron. When given a task they will connect to each other in a set way and complete the task once, then try another configuration and try again. Whichever configuration works best the computer will keep and then trash the other. Then it repeats the process over and over again.

So essentially it is learning how to do the process better and better each iteration. The only problem is that it is not self aware. All a computer sees is data, they can't see the big picture of what they are doing.
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:42 PM
Arch Stanton Arch Stanton is offline
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Regardless if a program is self-aware or not, if its modus operandi is self preservation, then it can be dangerous. Case in point: the U.S. military is currently debating the use of a closed system to operate several military installations in the case of cyber attack. The program would run on pre-programmed commands which, in theory, would be unstoppable once the system was closed to outside interference. I hope the danger is obvious.
Old 10-10-2011, 07:59 PM
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This isn't new, Google has had the same ability for two years on the android OS, its another thing Apple copied and is claiming they created.
Old 10-11-2011, 06:56 AM
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No, not worried at all. The idea of "skynet" was flawed. I don't want to say a piece of software could never be self aware and be able to learn in the way humans do, but for the foreseeable future it's true, this program simply works within the scope of its programming, it's not reinventing its programming without human interaction.
Old 10-11-2011, 07:09 AM
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FYI, this is what the U.S. army is interested in...

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/sta...number=5605630
Old 10-11-2011, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
No, not worried at all. The idea of "skynet" was flawed. I don't want to say a piece of software could never be self aware and be able to learn in the way humans do, but for the foreseeable future it's true, this program simply works within the scope of its programming, it's not reinventing its programming without human interaction.

AI is still in its infancy but MIT did some work in the late 80's to early 90's where they had robotic insects that learned to walk. They would basically turn them on and they would flop the legs around at random and a could sensors could tell if they lifted the body or moved forward. So when it detected movement is would retry and vary the leg flopping that it did when it detected the movement. Eventually it would learn to get up and walk and eventually would develop a normal gait to its walk. If they cleared its memory it would learn in a different amount of time but eventually settles on the same gait pattern for walking.
They found they could "break" a leg and it could learn to limp along without it. Was going to be the mars rovers before the funding dropped and nasa went with the wheeled ones.
Their research seems to have stalled and not really progressed much since then.
I have designed for a very basic neural network to do similar but a college student budget didn't allow me to finish anything.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:39 PM
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It hasn't really stalled, just taken a different direction with Deep Learning. While I don't see a computer wetware as too dangerous now, I could see the potential there, but even that is not as scary as combining Deep Learning with programmed software
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:44 PM
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Defiantly an interesting subject (AI), but I let AI and robotics all take a back seat to preparations, I've not kept up on some of the newer developments.
Old 10-12-2011, 11:17 AM
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Defiantly an interesting subject (AI), but I let AI and robotics all take a back seat to preparations, I've not kept up on some of the newer developments.
That's the problem. I have 3 main survival scenarios I try to prepare for (outside of the more "normal" hurricane, loss of power, flooding, etc) and they are:

1.Total collapse of society due to economic or military upheaval (the most likely, at least in the next 50 years)

2. zombie uprising (while a stretch, I could see a modification of super bacteria attacking the brain in large masses before a cure is found and driving certain enclaves of humanity insane)

3. robot uprising (whether due to a skynet-type system which I do not think is likely due to the widespread use of hardware which is very limited physically or due to a wetware system which I think is more likely as organic computers start to make their way into the mainstream...complete interface between our minds and bodies and cyberspace...shudders)
3A. net takeover, a play on the above theme using mostly net based programming and commands from an internally derived logic that has developed and evolved in a closed system)

I think option 3 is the scariest and the one for which we are most ill-equipped to deal. It is the only reason I learned to write in basic code. I may absorbed into the web but I least I'll be able to read about it
Old 10-12-2011, 01:41 PM
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Apple's behind the times vioce recognition isn't anthing to be scared of. Their walled garden of censorship called itunes is a step closer to skynet and their ability to copy others ideas, patent them then sue the original creator of those ideas does far more harm.
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:23 PM
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It is not voice recognition that is scary, it is the non-stop collection of habits, places visited, people and relationships known and recognized, banking info, logins and passwords, all recognized and able to be extracted. If you were someone who used your I-Phone nonstop as a tool in all of the above activities, seems like after a few years, you could be replaced by a very knowledgeable machine, then see my post above, scenario #3.
Old 10-12-2011, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
Just wondering if anybody else is more than a little nervous about the new cell phone application that can "learn" ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucd8_5RLzL8
Only if it says "I'll Be Back!"
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
It is not voice recognition that is scary, it is the non-stop collection of habits, places visited, people and relationships known and recognized, banking info, logins and passwords, all recognized and able to be extracted. If you were someone who used your I-Phone nonstop as a tool in all of the above activities, seems like after a few years, you could be replaced by a very knowledgeable machine, then see my post above, scenario #3.

thats not just done by apple, everyone does that now, nothing related to Siri.
Google, yahoo, msn, etc all sell your habits.
Ghostery tells me there are 14 trackers on this form as I type this
Old 10-12-2011, 07:55 PM
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thats not just done by apple, everyone does that now, nothing related to Siri.
Google, yahoo, msn, etc all sell your habits.
Ghostery tells me there are 14 trackers on this form as I type this
The advanced wetware AI is just sitting there, collecting information, processing, thinking, brooding, biding its time until the point of technological singularity (if my memory serves correct). Who is that shadowy man to your left? Where did he go? Nobody knows but here's this new toaster I've never seen before...zap, human threat eliminated...next!
Old 10-12-2011, 08:58 PM
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But what I mean is this Siri is nothing new and nothing that large, its just another input. Your web browser, credit /debit card purchases, etc are more inputs. Skynet will be the one system that brings this all together. Right now all these companies do their own things, each collects its own data, processes it in its own way and sells its own reports on it. Be it Apple, Google, whomever, they are all in competition with each other so they all try to hide their data and their own AI for understanding it.
Skynet will happen when/if they all work together, this new database for health data may be worth watching, depending on the size/scope of the project if they tie it in with enough data.

Funny that my wife and I just started watching Caprica on netflix. I had started watching battlestar earlier this year and she got home early from work and liked it so when they added caprica we started it. If you don't know of it basically this guy in charge of a military project lost his daughter and she was smart enough to recreate herself virtually by finding all the data collected about her, spending habits, medical records, surveillance records, etc.
Thats what it would take, Siri, Google's database, any of the trackers on this forum are not big enough, we would need to combine all their data, all their back end AI, then we get skynet.
Old 10-13-2011, 06:49 AM
Arch Stanton Arch Stanton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
But what I mean is this Siri is nothing new and nothing that large, its just another input. Your web browser, credit /debit card purchases, etc are more inputs. Skynet will be the one system that brings this all together. Right now all these companies do their own things, each collects its own data, processes it in its own way and sells its own reports on it. Be it Apple, Google, whomever, they are all in competition with each other so they all try to hide their data and their own AI for understanding it.
Skynet will happen when/if they all work together, this new database for health data may be worth watching, depending on the size/scope of the project if they tie it in with enough data.

Funny that my wife and I just started watching Caprica on netflix. I had started watching battlestar earlier this year and she got home early from work and liked it so when they added caprica we started it. If you don't know of it basically this guy in charge of a military project lost his daughter and she was smart enough to recreate herself virtually by finding all the data collected about her, spending habits, medical records, surveillance records, etc.
Thats what it would take, Siri, Google's database, any of the trackers on this forum are not big enough, we would need to combine all their data, all their back end AI, then we get skynet.
I agree, skynet will need to be the end-all, single source network which does not necessarily dictate that it will be AI, far from it. Though could a single human or group of humans be trusted to run such a network? I doubt it, which is where the AI will come into place. As we don't trust each other, we will assume that we need an "unbiased" mind to run it...ba ba bum! Welcome to tomorrow, please step in single file to your human processing station sir!
Old 10-13-2011, 08:07 AM
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An unbiased mind like our government
Old 10-13-2011, 10:19 AM
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The only problem is that it is not self aware. All a computer sees is data, they can't see the big picture of what they are doing.
....Yet!
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:48 AM
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An unbiased mind like our government


True, but they will never get along with each other and a system like you are talking would need worldwide approval. No country completely trusts another but they trust their freakin software like Newton's 4th law. Give it to the wetware, let it control the network, let it...transmission ended, human threat eliminated...
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