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Old 10-01-2011, 12:59 AM
HB of CJ HB of CJ is offline
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Default Does A Big EMP Bomb Require A Nuke To Work?



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I was taught that it takes a BIG NUKE to create a large EMP pulse. Now I am seeing articles on battlefield size EMP production that may not require a nuclear detonation to create the pulse. Is it possible? Is this current stuff true or just disinformation? My educaton is over 30 years old.

Is it possible nowadays to create a nasty city sized EMP just using an electrica/electronic/chemical bomb discharge and how exactly could that be created---without using a nuclear bomb to create it? I don't know. Rather scary fur sures if true. HB of CJ (old coot) (who doesn't---know)

Or...maybe I don't want to know.
Old 10-01-2011, 01:18 AM
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Well, I don't know alot about the technology, but, it appears that it is possible. Check out this website.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...996/apjemp.htm
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Old 10-01-2011, 01:21 AM
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Nope most modern armies have emp missiles, never heard of one being used though.
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Old 10-01-2011, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by determu View Post
Nope most modern armies have emp missiles, never heard of one being used though.
I have never heard of an EMP missile.

We have ICBMs with large warheads that produce EMP, but they are all nuclear warheads.

We have devices that can produce small scale EMP effects, but they were he size of a semi truck.

The energy requirements for these devices require a major power plant. We don't have any viable technologies to generate this kind of power in a missile.

While there may be a deeply burried program out there to develop this, but it is a long way from reality.
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Old 10-01-2011, 08:28 AM
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http://science.howstuffworks.com/e-bomb3.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosi...sion_generator

http://www.active-duty.com/MI_FCG_Fl...nGenerator.htm


These would have nowhere near the power nor cover as wide an area as a nuke induced EMP
Old 10-01-2011, 08:59 AM
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Thanks for the links. They are flowing 20-50 mega watts through the aperture winding to generate the magnetic field right before they blow the compression charge.

We do not have this shrunk down to fit in a missile. Yet.
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Old 10-01-2011, 09:25 AM
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Popular Mechanics did an Article like 10 Years ago about Tactical EMP Weapons, ie; Bomb/Missiles.
No, you do not need a Nuclear Device.
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Old 10-01-2011, 09:28 AM
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Thanks for the links. They are flowing 20-50 mega watts through the aperture winding to generate the magnetic field right before they blow the compression charge.

We do not have this shrunk down to fit in a missile. Yet.
That means that we DO. DARPA and their Ilk are always 20 Years ahead of what we think they are. And then some.
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Old 10-01-2011, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
Thanks for the links. They are flowing 20-50 mega watts through the aperture winding to generate the magnetic field right before they blow the compression charge.

We do not have this shrunk down to fit in a missile. Yet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...magnetic_pulse
Look under non nuclear emp

I swear I saw a news story that had an emp missile explanation.
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Old 10-01-2011, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
Thanks for the links. They are flowing 20-50 mega watts through the aperture winding to generate the magnetic field right before they blow the compression charge.

We do not have this shrunk down to fit in a missile. Yet.
That we know of. Just sayin. And just because we don't have one doesn't mean another power doesn't.
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Old 10-01-2011, 12:41 PM
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An Electromagnetic Pulse is just a wave of electrical disturbance of different phases.

There are a few ways to do it, some with plane old electronic gear where you flip a switch.

For tactical use, I would think a nuke is the best way to get range and power.

...the sun easily produces electromagnetic radiation with similar effects.


Nuke down low - blast damage, nuke up high - EMP damage.


IMHO - with the worlds current state, a nuke way on up high used as an EMP generator would produce FAR more damage than setting one off near the ground. The EMP effects would be immediate and also long term.
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Old 10-01-2011, 08:32 PM
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Perhaps nuclear powered? As opposed to nuclear discharge?
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Old 10-01-2011, 10:09 PM
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I asked a retired military man who now works with the nuclear energy industry about this question. He looked at me oddly then gave me a sideways answer. Paraphrased he said, "If a nuclear device (bomb, warhead, etc.) were detonated in the high atmosphere (a la "Jericho") it would have serious local effects, but the EMP effects would also skip along the earth's own magnetic field and show up in places the source (China, Iran, or the U.S.) did not intend the effects to reach."

He attempted to reassure me this unpredictability of the wave propagation is what prevents our enemies from attacking us via EMP. I'm not so reassured because his answer left me feeling that scientifically it is possible.
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Old 10-01-2011, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnCat View Post
I asked a retired military man who now works with the nuclear energy industry about this question. He looked at me oddly then gave me a sideways answer. Paraphrased he said, "If a nuclear device (bomb, warhead, etc.) were detonated in the high atmosphere (a la "Jericho") it would have serious local effects, but the EMP effects would also skip along the earth's own magnetic field and show up in places the source (China, Iran, or the U.S.) did not intend the effects to reach."

He attempted to reassure me this unpredictability of the wave propagation is what prevents our enemies from attacking us via EMP. I'm not so reassured because his answer left me feeling that scientifically it is possible.
I don't think this is right, but I could be wrong.

I can see how some of the effect could propagate along power lines etc, but that would not go far.
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Old 10-01-2011, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
Thanks for the links. They are flowing 20-50 mega watts through the aperture winding to generate the magnetic field right before they blow the compression charge.

We do not have this shrunk down to fit in a missile. Yet.
What we have are not missiles they are bombs, EMP bombs.

First used in the first days of Desert Storm.
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Old 10-01-2011, 11:04 PM
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EMP of the level created by large nuclear blast can be generated electronically but the characteristics of the pulse are somewhat different.
The Nuke ones have a much larger range than the electronic generated ones.
The mass of high velocity electrons are created by different means.
It is easier to shield electronics from the effects of the later rather than the former.
Alan
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Old 10-01-2011, 11:39 PM
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I remember an event concerning A Carnival Cruise liner that had somehow lost all power and blamed it on a Faulty Generator; It's kind of a tricky situation as if anyone really knows modern Cruise liners, they are overwhelmed with both Electronic safety measures that would never ever let one single Generator fire stall the entire ship much less cause it to loose all power. Approx. 12 hours later a Missle was launched from a Sub that was conducting operations on the west coast ; that same missle was launched from the California Coastline; I'm not sure after that as the story was put out from a sketchy source "Skortcha "......
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:48 AM
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Missile? We don't need no stinkin missile! http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/EMP_Grenade
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:49 AM
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non nuclear emps have been around since the 50s and only gotten better

i know we have them but to use one takes a lt colonel or higher

google explosivly pumped flux compression generator

heres a nice article on them

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...996/apjemp.htm



also if you want to know what an emp in the us would do the us gov has a commision that analyzes that sort of thing the emp commision

here is there mission statement

Quote:
The EMP Commission was established pursuant to title XIV of the Floyd D. Spence National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2001 (as enacted into law by Public Law 106-398; 114 Stat. 1654A-345). Duties of the EMP Commission include assessing:

1.the nature and magnitude of potential high-altitude EMP threats to the United States from all potentially hostile states or non-state actors that have or could acquire nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles enabling them to perform a high-altitude EMP attack against the United States within the next 15 years;
2.the vulnerability of United States military and especially civilian systems to an EMP attack, giving special attention to vulnerability of the civilian infrastructure as a matter of emergency preparedness;
3.the capability of the United States to repair and recover from damage inflicted on United States military and civilian systems by an EMP attack; and
4.the feasibility and cost of hardening select military and civilian systems against EMP attack.
The Commission is charged with identifying any steps it believes should be taken by the United States to better protect its military and civilian systems from EMP attack.
heres there link
http://www.empcommission.org/

here is a copy of there report given to the dept defense and congress in 07

http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2...ission-7MB.pdf
Old 10-07-2011, 05:49 PM
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What creates the large EMP in a nuclear explosion is the Lithium casing which serves as a source of hydrogen, hence the Hydrogen bomb.
I suppose that if you had a 20 kiloton explosion inside a casing of Lithium it may cause an equivalent EMP without the Nuclear effects.
Alan
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