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Old 09-22-2011, 07:55 PM
liebrecht liebrecht is offline
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Default Why CAN'T you use flour in canned stew?



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As the title says..............why not? Glad I read this thread as I had canned some goulash ( thickened with flour as I drege the beef in flour then brown it). I had assumed it counted as stew and pressure canned it for that amount of time......oh well......

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Old 09-22-2011, 08:31 PM
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The reason you do not thicken stews, or can purees is because you cannot get the center hot enough. You end up with unprocessed bits in the jar.
Old 09-23-2011, 12:15 AM
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Jeeze, more misinformation. Just can it like you would meat.
Old 09-23-2011, 07:33 AM
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DO NOT can foods with pasta, rice, cream, milk, tapioca, cornstarch, barley, and of course, flour of any kind. It lowers the acidity of the contents. Pressure canning will not help either, because ANY oil in the other contents will coat the flour and company, and protect its acidity level in the face of the heat to the extent that botulism may still grow. Its not worth it my friends. Don't do it.
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Old 09-23-2011, 07:51 AM
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hmmm, and after all these years I just thought it was due to latent expansion that would pop the lids and cause air access.

Guess I gotta change a 30 year process now because of some thread on SB...
Old 09-23-2011, 08:09 AM
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I once thickened some of my canned blueberries this way, then called a canning hotline to ask.

I was told the same thing -- not approved.

However since I had just done it, I was advised that I could refrigerate those jars and use these up.

We had a lot of blueberry pie .... mmmmm......
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Old 09-23-2011, 08:37 AM
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A friend of mine cans chili and spegettti and never has had trouble with the product down the road.
Old 09-23-2011, 09:06 AM
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Being dumb ( or just not enough coffee yet).....the acid level in stews is poor anyway so that is why you pressure can ALL low acid foods, right? How would the acid levels be lower due to flour than just say canned stew meat? Or the stew just minus the flour?

Liebrecht the confused
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Old 09-23-2011, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liebrecht View Post
Being dumb ( or just not enough coffee yet).....the acid level in stews is poor anyway so that is why you pressure can ALL low acid foods, right? How would the acid levels be lower due to flour than just say canned stew meat? Or the stew just minus the flour?

Liebrecht the confused
From what i understand, It has to do with modifying the original recipe.

Say you use a recipe from a current canning book for stew. If the original stew recipe did not call for any flour, and you decide to thicken the juice using flour, you have negated the processing time published. You have turned a tested recipe into an untested one.

If the recipe stated X amount of time originally, then how do you know how long it needs processed with a thicker mixture.

Thickening the mixture with flour slows the transfer of heat throughout the jar. So some of the ingredients in the middle may not reach the desired temperature soon enough to be thoroughly processed. In other words, they may not be processed long enough to be concidered safe If you used the published processing time for a recipe without flour.
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:23 PM
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Thanks ya'll. I guess I have to come up with Plan B as the recipes I have seen that are *approved*.....yuck. Either I poison us with canning stew yself or I poison us by eating Dinty Moore cnned stew<smile>. I have a beef+ in the freezers and wanted to cook it up and can it in case we lose power. Yes, I know one could BUY a generator but one to power this house costs in the thousands. And then there is the fuel issue for a generator. Back to the drawing board......

Liebrecht
Old 09-23-2011, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxkitten86 View Post
DO NOT can foods with pasta, rice, cream, milk, tapioca, cornstarch, barley, and of course, flour of any kind. It lowers the acidity of the contents. Pressure canning will not help either, because ANY oil in the other contents will coat the flour and company, and protect its acidity level in the face of the heat to the extent that botulism may still grow. Its not worth it my friends. Don't do it.
The acidity level in pressure canned foods isn't high enough to protect against botulism anyway.

The starches cause an unpredictable change in the processing time required. There are specific recipes that are tested, and use specific food starches, that are safe for pressure canning. But general, untested recipes that use thickeners should be avoided.
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:49 PM
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Low acid foods require pressure canning because, 212 degrees is not hot enough to kill the botulisim spores.

Pressure canning raises the temperature to 240 degrees, which is high enough to kill the spores. But, as stated before, flour,oil has the potential to insulate the spores and protect them. Even though the temperature may reach 240 degrees in the canner, with that little bit of flour covering, it may be enough to allow the spores to live.
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Old 09-23-2011, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by liebrecht View Post
Thanks ya'll. I guess I have to come up with Plan B as the recipes I have seen that are *approved*.....yuck. Either I poison us with canning stew yself or I poison us by eating Dinty Moore cnned stew<smile>. I have a beef+ in the freezers and wanted to cook it up and can it in case we lose power. Yes, I know one could BUY a generator but one to power this house costs in the thousands. And then there is the fuel issue for a generator. Back to the drawing board......

Liebrecht
Raw pack the meat (nothing added but a little salt and pepper) and can it. Then when you want stew, get out the veggies you canned, equal parts flour and oil (or butter if want).

Make a roux add in the can of beef, the veggies, bring to a boil. And you have stew.

Want tacos? See where this is going?
Old 09-23-2011, 03:16 PM
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If you cook (bring to a 10min boil) any canned foods does this NOT negate any possible botulism spores?
Old 09-23-2011, 03:27 PM
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If you cook (bring to a 10min boil) any canned foods does this NOT negate any possible botulism spores?
It does not. Botulism spores die at 240F boiling is only 212F at sea level. When you raise in elevations the temperature of boiling water actually goes down.
Old 09-23-2011, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liebrecht View Post
Thanks ya'll. I guess I have to come up with Plan B as the recipes I have seen that are *approved*.....yuck. Either I poison us with canning stew yself or I poison us by eating Dinty Moore cnned stew<smile>. I have a beef+ in the freezers and wanted to cook it up and can it in case we lose power. Yes, I know one could BUY a generator but one to power this house costs in the thousands. And then there is the fuel issue for a generator. Back to the drawing board......

Liebrecht
Dear Liebrecht,
Try this. Get every crockpot you can find. Cut up beef into chunks. Put in crockpot with: onion chunks, water and MOIST beef stock concentrate (this can be found at food service supply stores, and it tastes wonderful). Cook beef in crockpot until just barely shredable(shreddable? shredible?). Pack into pints or quarts with broth and onions, leaving room for meat to float. Process in a pressure canner. (Check your local extension service).

I guarantee (right hand over heart) this is the BEST tasting beef you have ever tasted. My then teenaged sons would take a pint off the shelf in the storage room, take it into their room and eat it straight from the jar as a snack during movie time or game time.

If you must have a bottled stew, try making a broth beef soup with vegs. You can always thicken the soup after it is in the pot warming up.

Good luck!
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:12 PM
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If you cook (bring to a 10min boil) any canned foods does this NOT negate any possible botulism spores?
It destroys the botulism poison thereby making the food safe to eat, but it doesn't kill the spores themselves.
Old 09-23-2011, 05:39 PM
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It destroys the botulism poison thereby making the food safe to eat, but it doesn't kill the spores themselves.
Umm..........aren't the spores bad to eat too? Sorry to be dumb but......I guess I AM dumb<smile>.

Liebrecht....confused again
Old 09-23-2011, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 Boys Mom View Post
Dear Liebrecht,
Try this. Get every crockpot you can find. Cut up beef into chunks. Put in crockpot with: onion chunks, water and MOIST beef stock concentrate (this can be found at food service supply stores, and it tastes wonderful). Cook beef in crockpot until just barely shredable(shreddable? shredible?). Pack into pints or quarts with broth and onions, leaving room for meat to float. Process in a pressure canner. (Check your local extension service.
Good luck!
Thanks. I have 5 boys too but the small ones live off PB at this point<sigh>. I will try your method except for the stock concentrate<smile>. This is grass fed beef from a source I know and I am a tad neurotic about what goes into the kids. I will just make stock out of the bones from the cow<smile> and use that. The flour actually comes in as I dredge the meat then brown it before I procede with goulash/stew. I was also trying to have eat-n-serve meals instead of cooking twice. I have a 6yo, 3yo twins, a hobby farm and I am a single mom so my intention was homemade instant food<smile>. Okay..so maybe a bit less * instant*.

And on the same note.......I usually cook pork in the crockpot with BBQ sauce til it is *shredable* but does the BBQ sauce mean that is not can-able also? Sheesh.....the more I larn, te more confused I get<smile>.

Liebrecht
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Old 09-23-2011, 06:15 PM
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Umm..........aren't the spores bad to eat too? Sorry to be dumb but......I guess I AM dumb<smile>.

Liebrecht....confused again
You eat botulism spores all the time. They say not to feed infants honey, but healthy adults deal with the spores constantly.

You may be thinking of salmonella. It will make you sick, but is easily killed by cooking to 160*.
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