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Old 09-12-2011, 03:50 PM
BirdofPrey BirdofPrey is offline
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Default Home made forced air incinerator???



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This isn't so much a survivalist item but figured someone here would be offer to offer some suggestions. In a survival situation, this might come in handy as it would decrease smoke signature.

I live in a rural location with no neighbors in a county that frowns on trash burning but has no regulations on it.

As with many around here, I use a burn barrel. However, as anyone with a burn barrel knows, its very inefficient. I'm left with a lot of partial or no burnt items in the bottom of the barrel which I then have to dump out, gather up in a seperate container, and haul off to the other end of the county to have disposed of at a dump site. Furthermore, I personally don't having so much smoke.

I'd really like to have some form of incinerator, whether its home built metal (won't last but a few years tops) or some type of brick or concrete (last a long time but if I ever have to tear it down or move it I'll have a lot of work on my hands.

I'm open to all suggestions though. My initial idea was to try using a barrel with a raised grate at the bottom, a cut out at the bottom with metal pipe run into it with a 23" metal bladed fan forcing air into it (my burn site is about 20 feet from my barn so I could keep the fan in the barn). I figured I could keep some pieces of expanded steel mesh grating around to lock down on top to kep down flying pieces of large embers.

My hope is to more thoroughly burn the paper items, decrease smoke, and help it out at burning up catalogues and other junk mail that doesn't burn well without constantly trying to stick a poke stick down into the barrel and turning (which doesn't work well either).

Problem is, this is all theory, the barrel will burn up quickly, and I have no idea if this will work.

I wouldn't mind haveing a brick style incinerator. However, while I have access to a large amount of regular brick, I do not have access to fire brick and I don't really think that regular brick would hold up to the heat generated.

So any one have any ideas that are cheap? I have to work on a shoe string budget here.
Old 09-12-2011, 04:08 PM
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cleatis cleatis is offline
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check out what he has done here. BUT on the side bar, "suggestion" bar, there are alot of idea. Thanks for giving me another idea of something I just gotta do.........
Old 09-12-2011, 10:39 PM
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As you already stated, any sort of forced air into a drum will shorten it's life, considerably.

I too burn, but use an 33 gal garbage pail. I go through (about) one every two/three years. If I have a lot of thick catalogs to burn I'll drag out a long hose from my air compressor. Using a 4ft. length of 1/2 conduit I'll blast air into the air intake holes (You DO have air holes punched in the drum??) and use a steel rod to mix up the unburned papers. With the compressed air (using just short blasts with the regulator turned down to just several pounds) it doesn't take long to get the glowing ashes to become 'blast furnace' hot.

If at all possible it would be best to use a fan to "draw" the air though the drum, rather that blow air into the fire. Much less chance of burning embers flying up to burn down your neighbors house.
(Yes I'm saying, don't do as I do... which can shoot flaming ashes 30 feet into the air).

Again, air holes, lots and lots of air holes. If you can support the drum a couple of inches off the ground, poke holes in the bottom too. Three / four bolts stuck into the side several inches from the bottom to support an old grill helps with air flow.
Old 09-12-2011, 11:03 PM
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Just watched the video, wow.. that guy is nuts! The first part, where he dumps in all that plastic crap, sure the exhaust is clean, but it still has all kinds of nastyies going up that stack. I didn't read any of the suggestions and I could think of plenty. Looked like he had the bucket soldered to the lid, by the second load you can see that it's all but gone.

I wouldn't want to inhale any of that smoke, And I'd NEVER run it with my grand kids around, way too many carcinogens!!

A mig welder would do him wonders. Sounded like he was using a vacuum cleaner for an air source. I'm sure a blower set up would be much cheaper to run.

I would also extend the chimney by several feet to keep the fumes from my breathing space.

All in all it was really sloppy, dangerous and yet a very effective system.
Old 09-13-2011, 05:59 PM
Borsch Dorks Gorge Borsch Dorks Gorge is offline
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I dont see the point in forced air unless you have fuel that air is being forced through and then the crap you want to burn inbetween that and the exhaust - if that be horizontal or vertical depending on your set up - and you want to get it all burned up quick. In the vid, injecting the air in at the point the guy was doing meant the fire was not getting hot enough quick enough to really burn the bad stuff.

Sure, the bad stuff needs air to burn, but it has to be hot hot hot for it to be broken down into relativly harmless gasses (depending on what your are burning, if its old mercury thermometers, then you are always going to get poisons coming out) but any carcinogenic carbon compounds can be turned into CO2, water vapour and ash if you get it hot enough.

For myself, I have always found if you get a boxwood stove hot enough - and it only takes some dry wood to get it hot enough so with a 6ft chimney, the draw will be enough so air is sucked in to bring the fire on more. A decent fire will get a stove pipe chimney orange, near cherry red - thats plenty hot enough.

With a boxwood, I am guessing it is not so air tight it can suck in air to 'reburn' the nasties in the chimney. Once the fire is so hot, you then add the things that could produce bad chemicals so you can ensure they are thoroughly combusted. I think if you live so out of the way you cannot dispose of such items, you should have enough land to do it on a big open fire, but fuel is the key.

A good stove with a good chimney means you need less fuel to get it as hot. An old oil drum will burn out within a few years, but a large propane bottle will not. If you are producing so much waste that would be toxic if burned in a cool fire that using a propane bottle stove would take to long, maybe you should question why you have so much bad waste to burn!.

Basically, a hot fire will burn almost anything, the only times forced air is really needed are forges, as method of controlling a home heating system or in engines.
Old 09-13-2011, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borsch Dorks Gorge View Post
I dont see the point in forced air unless you have fuel that air is being forced through and then the crap you want to burn inbetween that and the exhaust - if that be horizontal or vertical depending on your set up - and you want to get it all burned up quick. In the vid, injecting the air in at the point the guy was doing meant the fire was not getting hot enough quick enough to really burn the bad stuff.

Sure, the bad stuff needs air to burn, but it has to be hot hot hot for it to be broken down into relativly harmless gasses (depending on what your are burning, if its old mercury thermometers, then you are always going to get poisons coming out) but any carcinogenic carbon compounds can be turned into CO2, water vapour and ash if you get it hot enough.

For myself, I have always found if you get a boxwood stove hot enough - and it only takes some dry wood to get it hot enough so with a 6ft chimney, the draw will be enough so air is sucked in to bring the fire on more. A decent fire will get a stove pipe chimney orange, near cherry red - thats plenty hot enough.

With a boxwood, I am guessing it is not so air tight it can suck in air to 'reburn' the nasties in the chimney. Once the fire is so hot, you then add the things that could produce bad chemicals so you can ensure they are thoroughly combusted. I think if you live so out of the way you cannot dispose of such items, you should have enough land to do it on a big open fire, but fuel is the key.

A good stove with a good chimney means you need less fuel to get it as hot. An old oil drum will burn out within a few years, but a large propane bottle will not. If you are producing so much waste that would be toxic if burned in a cool fire that using a propane bottle stove would take to long, maybe you should question why you have so much bad waste to burn!.

Basically, a hot fire will burn almost anything, the only times forced air is really needed are forges, as method of controlling a home heating system or in engines.
I have to disagree, Fire is the results of blending the right combination of Fuel, Heat and O2. In many situations the fuel is often a "variable" which often changes during the burn. Just wood alone there's the type of wood (tree), wet wood, dry wood, large chunks, chips, sawdust ... let alone the different shapes. A incinerator is intended to burn most anything. I myself would expect it to burn all "normal" household waste. Wet coffee grounds, used paper towels, food packaging (from bags to boxes) food scraps (unless you compost) the list goes on and on.. Talk about variables!

Anyone who has burned either coal or wood should be very familiar with "CLINKERS" those un burnt pieces that you pull out with the ashes.
Yes, often they are rocks and stones.. but there's almost always some pieces that failed to burn completely. Most always because lack of heat, due to lack of O2. Not lack of O2 into the burn chamber, but lack of O2 around the clinker.

If you ever watched a pellet stove in operation you would see that they operate by drawing O2 thru the burn pot, producing a very hot fire. Stop this air flow and the fire goes right out (granted, they have small exhaust/chimneys)

------"Basically, a hot fire will burn almost anything"--------

Almost ANYTHING will burn, given enough heat and O2.

The incinerator shown in the video is pretty ugly. But it's plain to see that it works. When the guy removed the lid you could see that the coals at the bottom were still burning/glowing. If he would have let the blower run for a longer period of time I'm sure that ALL that would have remained would have been ash.

I didn't look/read the suggestions posted, one I would have suggested would be to install a series of blades in a spiral pattern on the inner wall of the barrel. This would help set up a swirl of air flow after the larger pieces break down.
Old 09-13-2011, 08:51 PM
6556 6556 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borsch Dorks Gorge View Post
I dont see the point in forced air unless you have fuel that air is being forced through and then the crap you want to burn inbetween that and the exhaust - if that be horizontal or vertical depending on your set up - and you want to get it all burned up quick. In the vid, injecting the air in at the point the guy was doing meant the fire was not getting hot enough quick enough to really burn the bad stuff.

Sure, the bad stuff needs air to burn, but it has to be hot hot hot for it to be broken down into relativly harmless gasses (depending on what your are burning, if its old mercury thermometers, then you are always going to get poisons coming out) but any carcinogenic carbon compounds can be turned into CO2, water vapour and ash if you get it hot enough.

For myself, I have always found if you get a boxwood stove hot enough - and it only takes some dry wood to get it hot enough so with a 6ft chimney, the draw will be enough so air is sucked in to bring the fire on more. A decent fire will get a stove pipe chimney orange, near cherry red - thats plenty hot enough.

With a boxwood, I am guessing it is not so air tight it can suck in air to 'reburn' the nasties in the chimney. Once the fire is so hot, you then add the things that could produce bad chemicals so you can ensure they are thoroughly combusted. I think if you live so out of the way you cannot dispose of such items, you should have enough land to do it on a big open fire, but fuel is the key.

A good stove with a good chimney means you need less fuel to get it as hot. An old oil drum will burn out within a few years, but a large propane bottle will not. If you are producing so much waste that would be toxic if burned in a cool fire that using a propane bottle stove would take to long, maybe you should question why you have so much bad waste to burn!.

Basically, a hot fire will burn almost anything, the only times forced air is really needed are forges, as method of controlling a home heating system or in engines.
I have to disagree, Fire is the results of blending the right combination of Fuel, Heat and O2. In many situations the fuel is often a "variable" which often changes during the burn. Just wood alone there's the type of wood (tree), wet wood, dry wood, large chunks, chips, sawdust ... let alone the different shapes. A incinerator is intended to burn most anything. I myself would expect it to burn all "normal" household waste. Wet coffee grounds, used paper towels, food packaging (from bags to boxes) food scraps (unless you compost) the list goes on and on.. Talk about variables!

Anyone who has burned either coal or wood should be very familiar with "CLINKERS" those un burnt pieces that you pull out with the ashes.
Yes, often they are rocks and stones.. but there's almost always some pieces that failed to burn completely. Most always because lack of heat, due to lack of O2. Not lack of O2 into the burn chamber, but lack of O2 around the clinker.

If you ever watched a pellet stove in operation you would see that they operate by drawing O2 thru the burn pot, producing a very hot fire. Stop this air flow and the fire goes right out (granted, they have small exhaust/chimneys)

------"Basically, a hot fire will burn almost anything"--------

Almost ANYTHING will burn, given enough heat and O2.

The incinerator shown in the video is pretty ugly. But it's plain to see that it works. When the guy removed the lid you could see that the coals at the bottom were still burning/glowing. If he would have let the blower run for a longer period of time I'm sure that ALL that would have remained would have been ash.

I didn't look/read the suggestions posted, one I would have suggested would be to install a series of blades in a spiral pattern on the inner wall of the barrel. This would help set up a swirl of air flow after the larger pieces break down.
Old 09-14-2011, 01:46 PM
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theairgunman theairgunman is online now
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Make your own refractory mix, I've made my own by using cat litter and vermiculite, it can withstand tremendous heat. It insulates very well and will help you achieve the heat you need to break down some of the more nasty elements of burning trash. Here's a heating system I've been working on made from this material:
Old 09-14-2011, 01:58 PM
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ChapNelson ChapNelson is offline
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On a smaller scale, I've tinkered around with woodgas stoves for camping. I like the J. Falk Bushwhacker design, which I believe can be replicated on a larger scale. It reaches a very high temperature, burns top down using released gases as fuel, and puts off very little smoke, leaves very little ash, and gets very hot relatively quickly.

I've not attempted it on the size you're probably considering, but the design meets the requirements you're looking for. Here's a thread another member started on it:
http://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...d.php?t=161298

edit: now you got me thinking. If someone could make a home wood stove using the woodgas principles, you could recapture some value from all of those junkmailers with very very high efficiency, and reduce visible smoke from chimney.
Old 10-03-2011, 07:44 PM
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If you can get your hands on an old hot water tank those last a long time as the body of a burn barrel or incinerator.

You can set up a tank so that the fire itself creates the draw and will act like a blower you need the air supply pipe to be 2-3 times smaller than the exhaust pipe. Such as 2 inch pipe in for air 6 inch stove pipe for exhaust.
Old 10-03-2011, 08:50 PM
augoldminer augoldminer is offline
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Find a old electric lawn mower and build a plate for the bottom with a feed tube.

Turned upside down you can feed newspapers, magazines, and catalogs in and grind them into shredded paper and catch the paper in the grass bag.

Newspapers, magazines, and catalogs do not burn good and in many cases just set there and smoke.

Once shredded they will burn a lot better or you can add them to your mulch pile with leaves and grass clipping. this will make for less to burn.

If you are going to burn the shredded paper put just a little old crankcase oil on it and it will burn a lot better.

I had a 3 inch metal tube with a ram that i could use on my 20 ton shop press.
I would mix wax with alcohol and spray the shredded paper(and some times saw dust from my shop) then press till it was rock hard.

I would do this year around and save the logs of pressed shredded paper for heating in the winter.

Just as good as those pressed logs that you buy in the store and cost a lot less
Old 10-04-2011, 06:10 PM
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with a lid the forge i built will melt copper brass bronze and aluminum. a lid of two inches thick and a two inch hole in the center would be sufficient two tune the forge in to a furnace. the can or barrel lined with two inches of refractory will do 2000 f . the injector is propane with a blower but it could be wo or charcoal to get it started. refractory i use was portland cement sand bentonite clay and sawdust
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