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Old 09-07-2011, 11:09 AM
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Default Using Kerosene in a diesel engine



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I store kerosene for heat and lanterns, but If I can run it in a diesel engine, I'd store a bunch more for my tractor and I'd replace my gas generators with diesel.
IOW, I'd use it as a universal fuel - mostly.

From what I've read, kerosene does not have the lubricity to run in a diesel engine long term.

Question:
Anyone know of an additive that will give some lubricity to kerosene so that it can be used long-term in a diesel engine?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 09-07-2011, 11:38 AM
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If I am not mistaken, kerosene burns hotter than diesel which can damage the pistons.
From my perspective, why not just store some diesel? It's cheaper.

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Old 09-07-2011, 12:14 PM
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Kerosene is the same as #1 diesel. There are lubricant additives available for it. Anyone having to run the new ultra low sulfur diesel in older vehicles should be using it anyway, to help preserve their injector pump and reduce wear.
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:22 PM
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I run home heating oil in my Diesel tractors and generator. When temperature drops below 20 degrees F HHO can gel. For winter use I either add a Diesel Fuel Stabilizer or mix 50% kerosene in the HHO. Now I can use it to -20 degrees F. Up north they run Kerosene below
-20 degrees F in Diesel engines.
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:28 PM
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If it is an older Diesel you can just add engine oil to the parafin / kerosene not 100% on the mix but it will be on the net
Last year I had to add parafin to my Landrover 300tdi Discovery due to the Diesel gelling because of the dramatic temp drop we had in the UK over the winter did not have any problems

max
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:48 PM
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Ive run it extensively in Florida with no problems.

You must add a lubricity additive like "Stanadyne Lubricity Formula" which was made just for this purpose.

FWIW, kerosene, Jet A, etc has 4.4% less BTU energy per pound that Number 2 Diesel.

It stores well but seal the tanks to keep moisture/humidity out.

Last edited by BigFootDriver; 09-07-2011 at 04:09 PM..
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:06 PM
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Thanks all.

I just found this:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=177728

Offer's all the answers I could hope for.
I'm thinking that 2 cycle oil is the way to go for price/availability.
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Old 09-07-2011, 07:21 PM
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Ultimately, why would you?? Kerosene will be in much shorter supply than diesel if the caca ever hits the fan.
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Old 09-07-2011, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Kerosene is the same as #1 diesel. There are lubricant additives available for it. Anyone having to run the new ultra low sulfur diesel in older vehicles should be using it anyway, to help preserve their injector pump and reduce wear.
a) K1 (Kerosene #1) is not the same as #1 diesel - it is a lighter fuel, lighter even than jet fuel (which is lighter than #1 diesel).

b) Sulfur contributes very little to the lubricity of diesel and there is no documented effect of ULS diesel on injectors or injector pumps.

c) You can run Kerosene in a diesel engine. Whether you should depends on a number of factors:
  1. What the ambient temp is
  2. The diesel engine you are running it in
  3. The percentage of diesel you are mixing it with
  4. The duty cycle and power level you are maintaining
  5. How much you need to get somewhere or do something v. how much you value the engine you are using it in

In a pinch, or in very cold weather, I would run kerosene in my diesel truck and not worry much about it. Indeed, if I were in very cold weather, I would probably *want* to add some kerosene to my tank.

BTW - I used to be a professional diesel mechanic - working first on marine diesels and then ag/industrial equipment. Most of the engines I worked on cost more than your typical car or pickup truck.

To answer the original question - diesel engines have a lot of advantages, including being somewhat multi-fuel, but I would not plan on running them solely on kerosene just because I use it for lighting or heating - I would get a diesel tank in addition to some however I store my kerosene. Would I get a diesel generator and diesel tractor? You betcha! Besides the ability to run a mixture of kerosene and diesel, they are just better choices for those tasks - diesel generators especially (diesels are very efficient running at a steady RPM in their power band).

All that said, what some people call "kerosene" or "Diesel" or "heating fuel" varies widely in grade and cleanliness. Some sellers of "heating oil" sell relatively heavy and dirty diesel. So comparing these fuels requires some objective numbers regarding the different metrics of the fuel (Cetane, sulfur level, the amount of paraffin, the boiling point and so on) - otherwise we are just talking past each other (or worse, just talking out of our anal orifice).
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Old 09-07-2011, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Heretic View Post

To answer the original question - diesel engines have a lot of advantages, including being somewhat multi-fuel, but I would not plan on running them solely on kerosene just because I use it for lighting or heating - I would get a diesel tank in addition to some however I store my kerosene. Would I get a diesel generator and diesel tractor? You betcha! Besides the ability to run a mixture of kerosene and diesel, they are just better choices for those tasks - diesel generators especially (diesels are very efficient running at a steady RPM in their power band).

All that said, what some people call "kerosene" or "Diesel" or "heating fuel" varies widely in grade and cleanliness. Some sellers of "heating oil" sell relatively heavy and dirty diesel. So comparing these fuels requires some objective numbers regarding the different metrics of the fuel (Cetane, sulfur level, the amount of paraffin, the boiling point and so on) - otherwise we are just talking past each other (or worse, just talking out of our anal orifice).
Kero and diesel also store better. You read these stories here and there about how they find diesel from WWII/Korea/Vietnam etc. and it's still in great shape.
I'd imagine adding something like PRI-D would even enhance that.
Less volatile too.

So are there any other disadvantage to running kero in a diesel engine besides lubricity and power?

If you can get past those, you really have the ideal fuel.
Lighting, heating, cooking, refrigeration, tractors, cars, trucks, generators - all running on the same fuel which lasts a lifetime, easy to store, less dangerous, (relatively) cheap.
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Old 09-07-2011, 11:07 PM
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The main problem with storing diesel (or similar fuel) is algae; if you have water in the fuel container, and you probably will in any non-trivial container, then algae will grow on the interface layer between the fuel and the water. When you try to use the fuel then that will clog your fuel system.

You can buy treatment for this.

I see little no advantage to using kerosene only - buy off-road diesel for you tractor/generator and for the cost per horsepower/kilowatt you will be ahead. Just don't use it in your on-road vehicles - if you get caught the fines are stiff.

Get another fuel tank for the diesel - they don't cost that much.
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Heretic View Post
The main problem with storing diesel (or similar fuel) is algae; if you have water in the fuel container, and you probably will in any non-trivial container, then algae will grow on the interface layer between the fuel and the water. When you try to use the fuel then that will clog your fuel system.

You can buy treatment for this.

I see little no advantage to using kerosene only - buy off-road diesel for you tractor/generator and for the cost per horsepower/kilowatt you will be ahead. Just don't use it in your on-road vehicles - if you get caught the fines are stiff.

Get another fuel tank for the diesel - they don't cost that much.

Thanks for your input and knowledge. Much appreciated.

The advantage to me, is not having to prognosticate about quantities I will need for each application - and you really can't use anything but the best kero indoors, or you risk not waking up the next day.

Anyway, after reading the article about additives (link above) I'm going to be using some 2 cycle oil in my 1966 John Deere tractor. Apparently the #1 diesel you get at the pumps today (sometimes #2 is hard to find) is as dry as Kero and a far cry from the stuff they were selling in '66.
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Heretic View Post
b) Sulfur contributes very little to the lubricity of diesel and there is no documented effect of ULS diesel on injectors or injector pumps.
The folks running the Stanadyne injector pumps are having problems with the ULS shortening their operating lives. Since I have this pump, I am concerned about this and run a lubricant.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:17 AM
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Here in California, kerosene costs about $10.00 a gallon while Diesel is about $3.50 a gallon.
Why would you want to use kerosene and pay the difference????
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
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Here in California, kerosene costs about $10.00 a gallon while Diesel is about $3.50 a gallon.
Why would you want to use kerosene and pay the difference????
Because I'm not in California.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:32 AM
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It works perfectly fine. My father used to get his plane serviced. When they do so they had to drain the fuel tanks. This fuel was deemed unusable for the aircraft. I used to have them put it in 55gal drums and bring it home. It fueled my 2001 VW TDI Golf for three years. I ended up selling the car but never had a problem with it. Plus it seemed to run smoother.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
The folks running the Stanadyne injector pumps are having problems with the ULS shortening their operating lives. Since I have this pump, I am concerned about this and run a lubricant.
Maybe it's not the lack of sulfur causing the lubricity problems, but the extra processing to take out the sulfur is also removing lubricants.

On a side note, this is another example of the idiocy of government regulation.
How many people are dumping who knows what into their tanks since the introduction of ULS, and what exactly is that spewing into the air?
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Old 09-08-2011, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
The folks running the Stanadyne injector pumps are having problems with the ULS shortening their operating lives. Since I have this pump, I am concerned about this and run a lubricant.
Europe has been using ULS diesel for years longer than the USA has, with no problems that I have heard of. Of course, my Cummins has a Bosch pump, not a Stanadyne like the Fords. Don't forget - Stanadyne sells the fuel additive, so they have a vested interest in blaming pump failures on ULS.
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Old 09-08-2011, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuellerBueller View Post
I store kerosene for heat and lanterns, but If I can run it in a diesel engine, I'd store a bunch more for my tractor and I'd replace my gas generators with diesel.
IOW, I'd use it as a universal fuel - mostly.

From what I've read, kerosene does not have the lubricity to run in a diesel engine long term.

Question:
Anyone know of an additive that will give some lubricity to kerosene so that it can be used long-term in a diesel engine?

Thanks in advance!
I have used ATF use a quart to 30 gal.
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Heretic View Post
Europe has been using ULS diesel for years longer than the USA has, with no problems that I have heard of. Of course, my Cummins has a Bosch pump, not a Stanadyne like the Fords. Don't forget - Stanadyne sells the fuel additive, so they have a vested interest in blaming pump failures on ULS.
It's not from Stanadyne that I got the information, but from other diesel owners in diesel related forums who were having problems with the older Stanadynes. It seems that the problem started shortly after the ULS mandate.
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