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Old 08-18-2011, 12:30 PM
Principal Principal is offline
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Default Buying an unregistered firearm question ...



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I always hear and read that ideally, it is far better to be the owner of several unregistered firearms. As far as I know, ever time you purchase a firearm at a gun shop and you do all of the paper work, your gun is now registered in your name.

The other way to acquire a firearm is to buy it privately. This brings me to my question. If I buy a firearm from a private individual and we simply make a private transaction (example: cash for a firearm), how do I know for sure if the firearm has a past to it. And that should I ever choose to sell it in the future via gun show, when the serial number would be run, would come back indicating that I did some naughty deed in the past, and would be held accountable?
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Old 08-18-2011, 12:34 PM
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Either contact your local PD or the ATF. They can run the numbers and tell you if it was stolen. If you think the seller is shady you are better off not buying from them.
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Old 08-18-2011, 01:09 PM
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as Im sure everyone will tell you ignorance of the law is no excuse...wheather you like them or not some police officers out there really are good guys seem to met a couple on here...I allways go to one I know and tell them hey ran into a deal..do you mind checking this out???.......
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Old 08-18-2011, 02:03 PM
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More than likely if you buy a gun at an estate sale, the one where the widow just wants to get rid of hubby's old guns, you probably aren't getting a hot pistol. Just use some common sense. Don't buy a gun from the crack dealer just outside of the housing projects. And I am not sure on a person-to-person sale if the feds require the seller to keep your information for 7 or 10 years or not. But, if they ask for your information, don't be too shocked about it.
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Old 08-18-2011, 02:19 PM
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Here in Florida, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement web site has a section that anyone can use to "run" a serial number to see it the item was REPORTED stolen.
I myself have used it when buying from private people, even though I personally knew them. If you have the number checked, do it before you pay, otherwise you are out the money if the gun is hot.
I personally prefer to buy from a licensed dealer. I love my freedom and rights too much to take a chance on being in possetion of a stolen firearm. In Florida, guns are not registered like some states do. There is no practical way for each individual federal form, at every store, to be checked and copied by law enforcement. They have more important things to do.
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Old 08-18-2011, 02:37 PM
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Just print up a bill of sale. You can get a bill of sale to print for free from this page... http://www.freebusinessforms.com/pri...ale-forms.html

They even have one that is specifically for guns.

Hang onto that bill of sale even after you sell the firearm.
Old 08-18-2011, 02:38 PM
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Where are you that you have to register firearms? If you are in that restrictive environment make sure you understand and follow the laws.

No registration in KS, just the 4473 and NICS when you buy through a dealer. The exception is if you are a concealed carry licensee, then no NICS .
Person to person deals between KS residents that are legally permitted to own the firearm do not require the 4472 or NICS, though I would get a receipt, CYA.
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Old 08-20-2011, 03:32 PM
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None of mine are registered.......... I bought them new and other than the 4473 that's the only form that has ever been filled out on them.
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Old 08-20-2011, 03:52 PM
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as i know it there is a difference between the paperwork when u have to buy from a dealer, and actually registering ur gun. Here in AZ we can buy from anyone privately without any paper work so that is nice. Im not sure how many other states are the same way. If something about the seller is shady though i wouldnt mess with buying a weapon from him.
Old 08-20-2011, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Principal View Post
... should I ever choose to sell it in the future via gun show, when the serial number would be run, would come back indicating that I did some naughty deed in the past, ...
The same can happen when you buy a firearm at a gunshow. Anytime that you buy a firearm from a private citizen you do not know if the gun has a history.

Also even if a gun does have a history on it, that does not convict you of a crime.


There is no 'registration' here. I am not aware of any benefit from 'registering' a firearm.
Old 08-20-2011, 10:12 PM
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The Form 4473 that you fill out when you buy a gun is not a registration. The form stays with the FFL (the gun shop). They have to hold on to them for 20 years, and then they can destroy them. How many actually do that is anyone's guess. They do go to the BATFE if the FFL goes out of business, but they claim that they do not go into any kind of database. Even with optical reading software available these days, that would still be a monumental task, anyway, particularly since there's no guarantee that the firearm is still owned by the person that bought it even a year later.

The federal government is prohibited from maintaining any kind of database of firearms that could be considered registration (with the exception of NFA-regulated weapons). In order to use the information contained in the form 4473s, they have to get a warrant- at least that's the law... assuming you trust the federal government. What I've always said about that is: based on WHAT???

The bottom line is that buying from a licensed dealer isn't registering a gun. While it might be possible to use those forms for some kind of registration database, I think the chances of that actually occurring right now is almost zero. In fact, I think the chances that it even could be done is very small. On the other hand, the chances that the BATFE and lots of other people in government WANT to use it to make a database is about 100%.
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Old 08-21-2011, 08:46 AM
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It is also going to depend on which state you reside in...here in PA you can purchase a long arm FTF without any sort of paper work. If you sell a hand gun, you need to do the transfer through an FFL holder.

Some states allow FTF on pistols, which would be cool...too bad PA does not allow this type of transaction.
Old 08-21-2011, 09:49 AM
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If the gun meets the minimum requirements as a semiauto firearm don't worry. You did not own the firearm when any previous act may have been committed and this is not CSI. The main thing you want to know is the firearm in good working condition.
Old 08-21-2011, 10:17 AM
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Texas requires no registration.
Old 08-21-2011, 10:28 AM
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If said buyer went through the National Background Check when buying the gun you can be sure it's on file some where. That the person bought the gun. That is why submitting the serial number is required.
Old 08-21-2011, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchie3409 View Post
It is also going to depend on which state you reside in...here in PA you can purchase a long arm FTF without any sort of paper work. If you sell a hand gun, you need to do the transfer through an FFL holder.

Some states allow FTF on pistols, which would be cool...too bad PA does not allow this type of transaction.
If you purchase any rifle at a gun store in PA they treat the long gun exactly like a handgun. Which they are not supposed to do. PA is a VERY antigun state when it comes to the politicians.
Old 08-21-2011, 10:33 AM
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Do any states really have true firearm registration?

The state I live in (Maryland) is among the most restrictive in the US for firearm purchases. You do have to go through an application process for restricted firearms such as handguns. But while the serial number of the gun you buy is recorded, it's not registered per se. You can sell it, lose it, etc and not have to report it.

In a true registration scenario you'd have to report that you no longer have the firearm. This is not the case where I am.
Old 08-21-2011, 11:18 AM
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I too live in MD. To purchase a handgun in MD, you have to fill out paperwork saying you aren't a felon, on drugs, convicted of even misdeameanor domestic violence, etc etc.
The MD State Police do a check on the paperwork. They also get a round fired from the handgun. It takes an averege of 10 work days before you can pick up your handgun. They also put a lock in the handgun . I bought a S&W 686 Plus and it had a key lock. The Baretta Sub Compact I bought had a barrel lock inserted in it. I had to pay for that lock.
I think they have been locking up handguns for sale in MD since the Movie "The Terminator."
Handgun ammo sales are recorded as well.
Old 08-21-2011, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat84 View Post
Handgun ammo sales are recorded as well.
That's actually hit-or-miss. Every place I go for ammo of any kind does not record ammo. I think that was a voluntary thing the MSP were pushing with gun stores a few years ago.

I literally don't know which stores use the log since I've never been asked to sign one anywhere.
Old 08-21-2011, 11:32 AM
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MD does require a record by name of handgum ammo sales. Even buying .22 for a rifle is recorded because it can be pistol ammo as well. I buy my pistol ammo on line to keep it from it being recorded
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