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Old 08-16-2011, 01:22 AM
TENNGRIZZ TENNGRIZZ is offline
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Default Long barreled 30/30



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I WAS LOOKING AT SOME OLD HUNTING PHOTOS OF MY GRANDDAD AND GREAT UNCLES WITH SOME LEVER ACTION RIFLES WITH 24 TO 36 INCH BARRELS CAN NOT FIND ANY ONLINE IN 30/30 WOULD LIKE TO BUILD A CUSTOM ONE ON A MARLIN 336 FRAME WITH A 36 INCH BARREL AND FULL LENGTH MAGAZINE. ANY THOUGHTS SUGGESTIONS ON WHERE TO START LOOKING WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. THANKS IN ADVANCE
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Old 08-16-2011, 03:15 AM
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I don't think there was ever a 30/30 with a 36" barrel. Winchester made a number of model 94's in 30/30 in a style known as "Military Muskets", but they had 30" barrels. Sounds like an interesting project though, if it comes to fruition make sure and post some pictures of the project.
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Old 08-16-2011, 09:01 AM
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WHAT IS,... sorry, what is the benefit of a longer barrel for the 30/30 round? I would think that modern ammo is optimized for a 20"-24" barrel. You may get diminishing returns with a longer barrel.

Sight plane might be a good argument however it is pretty simple to put optics on a rifle now. If the argument is bulk for a scope then you have to take into account the bulk of the longer barrel.

Interesting concept and it would most likely be a neat rifle, just not sure on what the benefits would be today.
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Old 08-16-2011, 03:36 PM
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Just an idea, i am always tinkering.
Old 08-16-2011, 03:45 PM
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If you went that long in the barrel, you might chamber it for 30-30AI. Fire forming cases is easy, and you could load hotter.

Try over on Marlin Owners forum.
Old 08-18-2011, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jida View Post
WHAT IS,... sorry, what is the benefit of a longer barrel for the 30/30 round? I would think that modern ammo is optimized for a 20"-24" barrel. You may get diminishing returns with a longer barrel.

Sight plane might be a good argument however it is pretty simple to put optics on a rifle now. If the argument is bulk for a scope then you have to take into account the bulk of the longer barrel.

Interesting concept and it would most likely be a neat rifle, just not sure on what the benefits would be today.

I often wondered the same thing. How were the barrel sizes decided on when they built these old guns. Why were the early Winchesters fitted with 24"+ barrels ?
Old 08-18-2011, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 30WCF View Post
I often wondered the same thing. How were the barrel sizes decided on when they built these old guns. Why were the early Winchesters fitted with 24"+ barrels ?
Because a 24-26" barrel hangs well, gives about a hundred + fps increase over the 20" barrel.

Longer barrels shot "harder", they had greater sight radius thereby were more accurate. Like shotguns, they followed through better.

That extra weight also helped with recoil.

You could get original '94's all the way down to the "Trapper" lengths of 18", 14", 15" and 16".
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Old 08-20-2011, 06:32 AM
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DO WANT! That is one fantastic looking rifle. I like my Marlin 336 but that... at a loss for words....




(Then again, if it's a firearm and goes bang reliably I usually want it. Especially if it has wood... )
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:21 AM
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My savage 219 SS seems to hit deer noticeably harder than My 336.The 219 has a 26" barrel.

Last edited by hob; 08-23-2011 at 12:23 AM.. Reason: added con.
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hob View Post
My savage 219 SS seems to hit deer noticeably harder than My 336.The 219 has a 26" barrel.
Longest shot I've seen taken from a 336 was at about 225 yards and it was a one shot drop chest hit on a deer quartering towards the shooter. An underpowered round the .30-30 is not!
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:48 AM
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I have never seen a 30-30 in those lengths but i have seen the other calibers with 24-26 in barrels like your 357 mag 44 colt ect

heres a marlin with a 26 in barrel holds 9 45-70 rounds

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firear...1895Cowboy.asp
Old 08-25-2011, 02:59 AM
LuniticFringeInc LuniticFringeInc is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmerJohn View Post
I have never seen a 30-30 in those lengths but i have seen the other calibers with 24-26 in barrels like your 357 mag 44 colt ect

heres a marlin with a 26 in barrel holds 9 45-70 rounds

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firear...1895Cowboy.asp
Wow! 9 rounds of 45-70...thats a whole lot of hurt at the other end of it!

Wasnt the 30-30 oringinally a black powder load that was later loaded with smokeless powder? If so I suspect that one of the major reasons for the 30-30 not having longer barrels today as compared to previous times is the fact that very few rounds are loaded with course grains of Black Powder which probably could have made better use of the longer barrel than todays modern smokeless powders which have been formulated to burn more effceintly in much shorter barrels found on todays guns. As such with modern smokeless powders I would imagine that after about 24 inches of barrel length you would most like see deminishing returns for the longer barrel length. Another possibility for the longer barrels on the older guns is that optics weret exactly common back in the day and that the longer barrel gave a much better sight radius than a shorter barrel did. This is all just speculation on my part and I am not sure if either theroy hold any water...
Old 08-25-2011, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuniticFringeInc View Post
Wow! 9 rounds of 45-70...thats a whole lot of hurt at the other end of it!

Wasnt the 30-30 oringinally a black powder load that was later loaded with smokeless powder? If so I suspect that one of the major reasons for the 30-30 not having longer barrels today as compared to previous times is the fact that very few rounds are loaded with course grains of Black Powder which probably could have made better use of the longer barrel than todays modern smokeless powders which have been formulated to burn more effceintly in much shorter barrels found on todays guns. As such with modern smokeless powders I would imagine that after about 24 inches of barrel length you would most like see deminishing returns for the longer barrel length. Another possibility for the longer barrels on the older guns is that optics weret exactly common back in the day and that the longer barrel gave a much better sight radius than a shorter barrel did. This is all just speculation on my part and I am not sure if either theroy hold any water...
yes it was originaly a bp cartridge 30 cal-30 grains of powder
same with 45-70 45 cal 70 grains of poweder

now your sharps are the only riflesi can think of wherethey commonly had upto 34 in barrels

first long range shooting competition was won with a sharps and the further sightradius doesmake them more accurate but also allows more of thepowder to beburned and not wasted hence longer barrels typicaly have higher velocities
Old 08-25-2011, 11:09 AM
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Marlin makes a nice 30-30 with a 24 inch barrel supposedly optimized for the Hornady LeverEvolution ammunition. I wish the magazine tube was full barrel length. Otherwise, it is a beautiful rifle:

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/xlr/336.asp
Old 08-27-2011, 01:21 PM
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TWP there is a good reason for the Marlin 24" barreled rifle to have a half magazine. One it helps with the balance and two if there is tension between the tube and the end of the barrel when the barrel heats up it can cause the barrel to shoot to a different point of aim as the barrel expands. My 44 mag would do that until I freed up the tube at the foward mount so there is a little slop. That took me a while to figure out what was going on.

One of the best 30-30s I ever owned was a Glenfield model 30 with a half magazine. It was a little lighter to carry and shot like a target gun. I still don't know why I sold it. I have tried to buy another but always get outbid. Now they are expensive when you find them. Folks seem to have figured out they are all you need in a hunting gun and a 5 round capacity is plenty.

I have read that the 30-30 round gains about 17fps per inch of barrel. A load shot in a 24" barrel should get 68fps more than a 20" barrel. Not much. A 26" barrel sould give you 102fps over a 20" barrel. Still not a whole lot.

I have read that in the old days a rifle in the rack with the longest barrel was the first one looked at and the quickest to sell. Now everyone wants carbine length guns and won't look twice at a 26" barreled gun. Some will, but not many.
Old 09-01-2011, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuniticFringeInc View Post
Wasnt the 30-30 oringinally a black powder load that was later loaded with smokeless powder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmerJohn View Post
yes it was originaly a bp cartridge 30 cal-30 grains of powder
same with 45-70 45 cal 70 grains of poweder
Nope, the .30-30 was originally loaded with Smokeless powder. The cartridge was designed around the smokeless.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/3030history.htm

But yes it originally contained 30gr of smokeless. And today 30gr of IMR 3031 is still a good load.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whirlibird View Post
Nope, the .30-30 was originally loaded with Smokeless powder. The cartridge was designed around the smokeless.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/3030history.htm

But yes it originally contained 30gr of smokeless. And today 30gr of IMR 3031 is still a good load.
so they just kept the old BP case designations thats cool thanks for the correction
Old 09-01-2011, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jida View Post
WHAT IS,... sorry, what is the benefit of a longer barrel for the 30/30 round? I would think that modern ammo is optimized for a 20"-24" barrel. You may get diminishing returns with a longer barrel.

Sight plane might be a good argument however it is pretty simple to put optics on a rifle now. If the argument is bulk for a scope then you have to take into account the bulk of the longer barrel.

Interesting concept and it would most likely be a neat rifle, just not sure on what the benefits would be today.
Anytime the propellent has a more complete burn there is better accuracy and muzzle velocity. I am not sure that "modern 30/30 rounds" and loaded any differently then they were since the development of smokeless powder.

Even if they have some whizbang powder that got as good results out of a 20 inch barrel as from a 36 inch barrel i doubt standard factory loads have changed all them much in the past 90 years.
Old 09-01-2011, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whirlibird View Post
Nope, the .30-30 was originally loaded with Smokeless powder. The cartridge was designed around the smokeless.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/3030history.htm

But yes it originally contained 30gr of smokeless. And today 30gr of IMR 3031 is still a good load.
If this is true then why is it that our troops in the Spanish American war had black powder loads in their 30/40 Krags and model 95 Winchesters?

They were at a disadvantage becuase the Spanish Mausers fired the NEW smokless powder which was not available in the US at that time.

In Teddy Roosevelts book about the Rough Riders he explains this in great detail.
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:50 PM
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Default To the question above.

The USA was in no hurry to upgrade weapons.
We were still using weapons from the US Civil War.
If I remember correctly the American Buffalo Soldiers were
still armed with trapdoor Springfields during the battle of San Juan
Hill.

The Spanish on the other hand, had adopted Mauser's 1895
7mm rifle. Which was way ahead of everything we took with us.

We won the battle, we won the war, we wrote the history books.
But nobody seems to remember that we had FOUR TIMES the
wounded and dead the Spanish did.

And contrary to poplular belief, good old Teddy Roosevelt didnt
win that battle by himself......
While I thank Teddy for Yellowstone, one should remember, he
was very good at patting himself on the back and making sure
the media knew about it....

Back to the original poster.
There are a couple of NRA musket rifles for sale at Gunbroker.com.
These have 26 inch barrels.
I didnt have time to look at all the 30-30 rifles listed there.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=249206860

While you have an interesting idea, I dont see much benefit past
the 26 inch barrel. But I have been wrong before.

Good luck with your search and keep us posted.
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