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Old 07-29-2011, 12:18 PM
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Beans and rice stored in mylar bags with oxygen absorbers are supposed to be good for around 20 years.

Instead of flour, store oats and grind it into what you need.

Sugar and salt stores well with no oxygen absorbers

Honey stores good for just about forever.

Those same questions have been posted here hundreds of time. Please read through this list of thread about stockpiling food - http://www.survivalistboards.com/tag...ockpiling+food
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Old 07-30-2011, 03:19 PM
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Thanks for all the advice. I appreciate it all very much. Just a little comment on some of the discussion about beans. For the most part we as Americans can only theorize about sustainability and nutrition in a long term survival scenario, but this is not true for central and south america. Having lived for over twenty years south of the border in Mexico, Guatemala and Brazil, I can tell you that beans are a primary part of the daily diet of hundreds of millions of people that survive and work very hard on nothing but a diet of mostly beans, corn tortillas and or rice. They eat very few vegetables and fruit and only on rare occasions. This is not to say they are perfectly healthy or that they could not be better nourished, but only that they survive all of their lives this way with no major problems. It is important when theorizing to remember that there is a big world out there with a long history and many have gone through and/or are currently right now going through what we in the US are preparing for.

As far as for me personally, I am better set then most. I moved to 10 acres last year that is 20 miles from any town. I am in the process of installing 6000 feet of underground drip irrigation on one acre for a garden area. I have located 3 wild honey bee hives which I plan to capture as soon as I get some boxes. I have a chicken flock and a years worth of stored feed for them. I also have a small 1/3 acre water tank that is the only water for miles and have a good wildlife population coming to it. It had fish in it but the extreme drought here caused a drop in oxygen and they all died. I plan to restock once it rains again. I am currently looking for a diesel generator for back up electricity should there be a power grid shutdown. I have access to crude oil and free natural gas (oilfield byproduct) to run my generator off of. By years end I will have a water tower with a 1000 gallon tank that will be filled by a solar pumping system. I also have complete BOB's for each person in my family if our home site should be discovered and envaded and we need to flee to the woods. Each BOB has all essential survival tools for a long term scenario and weighs 32lb without clothes, gun and ammo. These things are not unusual for me as I have lived very poor countries where survival was just part of life and I learned true survival skills from the best survivalist on earth, the natives (Indians). As I said before, I am better prepared then most.
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Old 07-30-2011, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Sooner_Will_Survive View Post
get straight up grain and not flour. its better for you and lasts longer. you only need to invest in a hand mill.
i have this meat grinder i bought off ebay, i jams up when i grind meat. can i use it for grain milling?
Old 07-30-2011, 03:42 PM
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Oh one thing that I want to mention is Cassava Flour. In the Amazon, this is the primary dietary food source of the Amazon Natives. It is a dehydrated meal substance like corn meal. It can be used for an almost unlimited number for meal options and it will store for years if you keep it dry. It has much more nutritional value then wheat flour and has a lot of fiber. The problem is that it is expensive to acquire in the US because it is imported from Africa. I am trying to acquire some cassava plants to experiment in growing the planted here in the US. If I am successful I will be more then glad to not only help other grow this plant, but also teach you how to make your own cassava flour. The other benefit is that the leaves of the plant itself it very useful. The leaves are very nutritious and can be eaten life spinach or collard greens. The plant does not grow from seeds. The actual stalk of the plant is sectional and each section can sprouted out for a new plant. So far I have been unable to find a source for the plant, even though I have seen some information about people growing it in Florida. This plant could be an essential part of survival for thousands as one plant can produce 100lbs of tubers in a season. The tubers can be used like potatoes right out of the ground, or your can turn them into flour for long term storage. During the dehydration process the by product is pure starch. This starch is used in the US under the name of "Tapioca", but it is the same thing as corn starch and can be used for many other things and is an alternate source of carbohydrates. So essentially, every part of the cassava plant has useful. There is no waste.
Old 07-30-2011, 03:52 PM
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Not really. Your grinder is probably clogging because you are putting too big of pieces of meat in it. Try cutting you meat into cubes and chilling them before you grind them. I grind several hundred pounds of wild game (deer & pigs) a year with a home built grinder system. I used a 1/2HP evaporation cooler motor and a large hand meat grinder. I bolted both to a 4 foot section of a 2X12" pine board and attached a 12" pulley wheel to the grinder and 2" pulley wheel on the motor with a fan belt drive between. This slows the grinder down and gives it more torque.
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Old 07-30-2011, 04:01 PM
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i have this meat grinder i bought off ebay, i jams up when i grind meat. can i use it for grain milling?
keep an eye out for a corona clone mill. dont pay over 50 bucks. and stay away from buying crap from survival websites. seen a corona clone being sold for 200 bucks. lol.

Old 07-30-2011, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ShellbackBill View Post
Ditto. Bees will survive most SHTF scenarios, and will continue providing you with honey for your own use and barter.
Except the current environment bees are becoming increasingly scarce an at risk species and may be approaching threatened. Enough that there is a noticeable effect on pollination of crops. Tomatoes may be a good example some may have experience with. Nurseries in some areas are suggesting manual pollination of the tomato plants to help assure a decent crop.

Regarding Rice bean flour storage I concur you are much better off storing grain as opposed to flour. In grains rice beans sugar we add some diatomaceous earth. It eliminates any bugs that come with the grains or manage to get in. It also helps reduce caking and not only is it safe to consume it has significant health benefits.
Old 08-13-2011, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by kev View Post
Beans and rice stored in mylar bags with oxygen absorbers are supposed to be good for around 20 years.

Instead of flour, store oats and grind it into what you need.

Sugar and salt stores well with no oxygen absorbers

Honey stores good for just about forever.

Those same questions have been posted here hundreds of time. Please read through this list of thread about stockpiling food - http://www.survivalistboards.com/tag...ockpiling+food
Do you need the O2 absorbers if you vacuum seal them?
Old 08-14-2011, 01:14 PM
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Just out of curiosity, about long will flour last if stored properly?
Old 08-14-2011, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jungleexplorer View Post
Just out of curiosity, about long will flour last if stored properly?
LDS' website says you can get about 10 years storage out of it, properly stored with mylar and 02 absorbers, of course.

I just packed some sugar and flour in mylar/02. Ive noticed that it doesnt get as "hard" as rice does. What I mean, is the bag doesnt seem to suck down on it as much as rice bags do. I dont know if my 02 absorber didnt do what it was supposed to, or I didnt put enough 02 absorber in with it....the bags have a good seal, they just didnt "implode".
Old 08-14-2011, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by toolman View Post
Do you need the O2 absorbers if you vacuum seal them?
Vacuum sealing doesn't remove anywhere near as much O2 as an O2 absorber would. There is enough O2 left behind to support insect infestations and enough to allow foods to oxidize. It's a good short term solution for home dehydrated garden produce and such, but not really suitable for long term storage. Also, vacuum sealer bags tend to let in air after a couple years anyway.
Old 08-14-2011, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jhumphrey View Post
I just packed some sugar and flour in mylar/02.
If you stored sugar with an O2 absorber, you'll wish you didn't!

Sugar and salt don't need them anyway. They just need to be kept dry, and in the case of sugar, away from insects.
Old 08-14-2011, 03:14 PM
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If you stored sugar with an O2 absorber, you'll wish you didn't!

Sugar and salt don't need them anyway. They just need to be kept dry, and in the case of sugar, away from insects.
My first round of ever using mylar was last weekend. I put rice, flour, and a small thing of sugar in the bags. Should I open the sugar bag and yank out the 02 absorber? I can easily reseal the bag.

Thanks Mike.
Old 08-14-2011, 06:19 PM
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Eating a "beans only" diet is going to lead to malnutrition. Im sorry, but your "beans and bullets" only advice could get someone in a serious predicament during a SHTF moment and anyone reading this post should take what you said with a grain of salt (and salt is its own topic....)

I can't believe you're using the FDA food pyramid as a basis for an argument on SHTF nutrition.

Nobody's implying you decide to live forever on beans. A beans-only diet would sustain you for several months before you even started showing any signs of nutrient deficiency.

Most beans (pink, lima, black, and kidney to name a few) are a complete protein in and of themselves. They also contain plenty of carbohydrates. While they do not provide an ample source of vitamins A, B, D, or E, it takes an extremely long time to suffer from a deficiency of these vitamins from dietary sources. You can synthesize vitamin D just by exposing your skin to sunlight, and vitamin E deficiency is extremely rare and takes a long time to start showing itself unless you have medical conditions that cause a natural deficiency.

Would you eventually start to suffer from malnutrition? Yes, eventually. However, it would take an extremely long time, literally months or even years, before the deficiency started to seriously impact your health, and if you have vitamin supplements you would never suffer health-wise from it.

Plus, I don't think anyone is literally implying you should permanently live off of beans, but merely suggesting that a beans-only diet will keep you going strong in a survival situation, which is true. The same is true of a potato-only diet for the same reason.
Old 08-14-2011, 10:59 PM
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I can't believe you're using the FDA food pyramid as a basis for an argument on SHTF nutrition.

Plus, I don't think anyone is literally implying you should permanently live off of beans, but merely suggesting that a beans-only diet will keep you going strong in a survival situation, which is true. The same is true of a potato-only diet for the same reason.
Yes, I did use it. I used to play baseball and a nutritionist set out my diet (meal to meal...eating 6-8 times a day). Guess what I noticed? A lot of it was stuff based around the pyramid. It works for me, if it doesn't for you, oh well, no need to be judgmental about it. I would compare a survival situation to being an athlete: you'll need more calories than you think to keep going, under stress, and (for some) carrying more weight than they are used to (weapons, backpacks, etc). That all adds up. Eating just beans isn't going to give you all the fuel you need.

Plus, you're absolutely wrong and someone DID suggest a "beans only diet" (it was refereed to as a "beans and bullets diet"). I never said that beans were bad or couldn't help you in a survival situation, but I will never agree that you should just stockpile beans and nothing else.
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Old 08-15-2011, 12:54 AM
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It works for me, if it doesn't for you, oh well, no need to be judgmental about it.
I'm not being judgmental, it's just that the food pyramid is over-complicated in some areas and under-complicated in others.

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I would compare a survival situation to being an athlete.
That depends entirely upon the situation. Modern athletes have the benefit of an ample and significant supply of food. Survival includes rationing, which also includes conserving energy as much as possible, unlike an athlete who regularly trains and thus burns excess energy that might not otherwise be necessary.

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You'll need more calories than you think to keep going, under stress, and (for some) carrying more weight than they are used to (weapons, backpacks, etc). That all adds up. Eating just beans isn't going to give you all the fuel you need.
You need 1,500-2,000 calories to stay alive and stay healthy. Yes, more physical activity is going to require more food, but we're not talking about mountain climbing every day. Conservation is important, and if you burn energy needlessly you're just hurting yourself.

Food can basically be broken down into "fuel" and "nutrients". In terms of "nutrients", balanced nutrition is helpful. However, in terms of "fuel", all you need is calories. That's it, and 70-80% of those should come from carbohydrates if your activity is going to be highly physical. The primary caloric source from beans is carbohydrates.

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Plus, you're absolutely wrong and someone DID suggest a "beans only diet" (it was refereed to as a "beans and bullets diet"). I never said that beans were bad or couldn't help you in a survival situation, but I will never agree that you should just stockpile beans and nothing else.
Actually, the exact quote was "there's something to be said for [the classic beans and bullets diet]." That's not the same as suggesting it literally, merely a statement that the concept of narrowing foods down to a handful of hearty staples is a good idea. For example, beans and potatoes, or potatoes and rice...

I would never stockpile only beans. In fact, the bulk of the calories in my food stockpile is beans, rice, and pasta. And I've checked the nutritional values, that's very balanced.
Old 08-15-2011, 01:22 AM
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I'm not being judgmental, it's just that the food pyramid is over-complicated in some areas and under-complicated in others.

You need 1,500-2,000 calories to stay alive and stay healthy. Yes, more physical activity is going to require more food, but we're not talking about mountain climbing every day. Conservation is important, and if you burn energy needlessly you're just hurting yourself.
To me, the food pyramid isn't complicated to understand. Most Americans tend to overeat in areas they shouldn't and undereat in areas they should. I think the pyramid has been changed to a plate or something, but the key is moderation...but, I digress. Nutrition is as personal as to what weapon you want to carry. We all have our preferences and ideas. I just didn't agree with the "beans and bullets" mentality. Iirc, I think in the same post, it was suggested to forgo rice, pasta, bread, etc. in favor of beans. It's not what I would do, but if you want to, go for it. Bread is called the staff of life for a reason.

Our nutritional packaging is based on a 2k/day calorie intake. That's fine for some, but to little for others. I personally don't know anyone who intakes less than 2k/day. In an emergency, I personally think you'd need more, but, once again, that's up to you.
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Old 08-15-2011, 07:27 AM
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I'm sure this situation varies from person to person, too. You know, the whole beans vs. rice vs. combination...

It's like working out. There's no single workout plan that works for everybody. Everybodys body functions differently and responds to different things. Find what food source(s) works for you. What makes you feel energetic, what you don't get sick of, and what you can digest well. We have time now to experiment with these things. Then stock up on what you need, instead of guessing.
Old 08-15-2011, 11:08 AM
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To me, the food pyramid isn't complicated to understand.
I never said it was complicated to understand, I said it was over-complicated, meaning its design is unnecessarily complex in terms of nutrition sources.

Grains, fruits and vegetables can be combined depending on the source rather than seen as separate food "groups". Meats can be ignored entirely unless you're trying to build muscle mass. Dairy itself is completely unnecessary.

My point was that it's not even remotely necessary to say "I need X amount of dairy, Y amount of fruit, Z amount of vegetables." It makes it seem like a well-rounded diet is a balancing act, but it really isn't.
Old 08-15-2011, 01:06 PM
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To me, the food pyramid isn't complicated to understand. Most Americans tend to overeat in areas they shouldn't and undereat in areas they should. I think the pyramid has been changed to a plate or something, but the key is moderation...but, I digress. Nutrition is as personal as to what weapon you want to carry. We all have our preferences and ideas. I just didn't agree with the "beans and bullets" mentality. Iirc, I think in the same post, it was suggested to forgo rice, pasta, bread, etc. in favor of beans. It's not what I would do, but if you want to, go for it. Bread is called the staff of life for a reason.

Our nutritional packaging is based on a 2k/day calorie intake. That's fine for some, but to little for others. I personally don't know anyone who intakes less than 2k/day. In an emergency, I personally think you'd need more, but, once again, that's up to you.

OP chiming in here. I don't mind that this thread has been hijacked for the whole beans vs health diet discussion, but I do want to to bring this argument to a close if at all possible. You two are arguing apples vs oranges.

jhumphrey, you are arguing that a beans only diet is not a healthy diet and bigsol81, you are arguing that in a extreme survival situation where food options are limited, beans will keep you going for a long time. You are both right. But both of you need to realize that the aboriginal Americans (Indians, Native Americans, First Nations) lived on this land for thousands of years very successfully without all of the industrialized agriculture and imported food sources most people think are essential to living a healthy life here now. They had the strength and endurance to work harder and run father then any of us normal (non-Olympic athlete) people could ever imagine. This is an absolute indisputable fact. I have lived with and studied aboriginal people all over the north and south american continents. I know what I am talking about. They could do this because they knew how. So, the number one essential of survival is not food; it is knowledge!

It also important to realize that many people around the world are right now living and have lived their whole lives without the cornucopia of food sources you and I enjoy here in the US. They also have to worked harder every day then most of have ever worked in our whole lives. They do this on a diet that is very meager and basic compared to ours. So, remember that there is a big world out their with billions of people already living in the situation that the people on this forum are preparing for. It is important to remember this so that your thinking is not reduced to your little isolated life and experience.

If you have the funds and resources to store up enough food to eat a banquet meal three times a day for the next ten years, go ahead. But if you are struggling to make ends meet and want to make sure you don't starve to death in case the worst happens; store up the basics, like beans and rice.

This thread is about HOW to store food, not what food to store. Let's try to get back to that. Please.
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